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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#501

Post by embedding-shape »

xyzelement wrote: post #465
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

I think it's something different than "Americans are passive" - rather, many of them/us perceive the context of what you're seeing very differently. I can share some of this perspective though I don't insist it's the only way to feel. 1. Americans on the ground are clearly feeling the effects of illegal immigration. As an example: a an African American janitor in our kids' school voted republican in 2024 for the firs…

> it's because you come in from a perspective of not wanting the underlying problem solved

Where is this assumption coming from? Of course I don't want people to break the laws of the country or immigrate illegally, I never argued for that either.

What I don't understand, if Obama managed to throw out more illegals than Trump did for the same duration of time, yet with a lot less chaos and bloodshed, and you truly want less illegal immigrants, should you favor a more peaceful and efficient process? Instead of a more violent and less efficient process?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#502

Post by pstuart »

brightball wrote: post #245
stackghost wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what happens when one allows oneself to hide in "safe spaces" (like HN) where there's a "no politics" rule enabling people to hide and avoid being confronted with the ramifications of their actions. The entire world runs on technology now. It's all inherently political.

I'm going to defend the HN "no politics" rule here. The reason "no politics" zones exist is because there are enough people going out of their way to shout at everybody, everywhere, in every corner of the internet and enough people are tired of it that they flock to...no politics zones. In real life, a person like that confronts you...you remove yourself from the situation, because that person who can't stop shouting…

There's a vast difference between tribal partisan politics and discussing policy as a system of governance (hacking society). I do my best to avoid the former and embrace the latter.

That said, there's a disappointingly significant number of HN members who hew to the latter and embrace the current regime. I consider this to be a forum of intellectual engagement, and that those people walk amongst us is quite distressing.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#503

Post by welcome_dragon »

taude wrote: post #294
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to invite you to prove any three of your points.

You don't think most people are motivated by their personal paychecks? People need paychecks. Not everyone is going to get to build and lead their own businesses?

When we stop tying our health insurance to our employment, we'll see a drastic uptick in people starting their own businesses. Working at company Z because their health insurance is fully paid for by the employer vs working at company Y where it costs you 1,400 a month for HDHP but the salaries are the same shouldn't be a thing

At least that's my theory.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#504

Post by mlsu »

Amezarak wrote: post #462
tremon wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

That’s not an answer. Please explain why it’s a bad thing that Palantir had produced an application that shows ICE agents the probable addresses of people they’re supposed to deport along with information about them. If the answer is “I don’t believe in immigration law and the government should not enforce it regardless of what people vote for”, that’s a completely acceptable answer.

Because these systems are not only used on illegal immigrants. To give you a very clear example: a US citizen was murdered without any due process a few days ago by ICE.

Because surveilling people -- PEOPLE, not citizens -- without probable cause is a violation of the US constitution?

It is a bad thing because it leads to innocent people being brutalized, it's a violation of the constitution, it's very clearly the primary tool of an increasingly authoritarian government?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#505

Post by basket_horse »

chinathrow wrote: post #495
basket_horse wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s really this simple. Palantir is a major government contractor that enables it to be more tech savvy. It’s embedded through hundreds of teams / agencies. You can’t remain a credible partner if you play morality police on every workflow. Palantir has worked through multiple administrations of both parties and have to support whoever is in power to have a seat at the table. Ultimately the question is…

> Ultimately the question is just: would you prefer to have a competent or incompetent government? Is this a joke? Have you looked at the current administration?

Haha, true, although I meant competent from a tech perspective. The reason Palantir is even in the building is because the government is notoriously bad at technology.

You need to separate government institutions ability to use tech from Trumps obvious buffoonery.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#506

Post by SigmundA »

embedding-shape wrote: post #368
breakpointalpha wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American life is so much more distributed than European life. Population density and the gigantic geographic distance make these kinds of events feel "remote" even if they are happening in our same state. It's a 17 hour drive from Atlanta, Georgia to Minneapolis for example. On top of that, a lot of Americans are just barely surviving financially, so they are in full bunker mode just making rent. It's a scary time to…

> American life is so much more distributed than European life. It isn't though, Google Maps estimate going West>East coast in the US to take 44 hours (pure driving without stops), and puts going from the South of Spain to the North of Sweden to take 50 hours, more or less the same. Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of t…

>South of Spain to the North of Sweden to take 50 hours, more or less the same.

That would be like driving from Key West to Prudhoe Bay which looks to be 91 hours.

Sorry the US is big spread out place, but I also agree it's not really an excuse for what's happening.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#509

Post by stackghost »

brightball wrote: post #381
rozap wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what op is getting at is that "no politics" rule is what allowed the frog to boil. So banning political discussion is political in and of itself. I'd agree with your no politics preference if we were in a functioning society that wasn't actively spiralling towards fascism. I recognize that this line is blurry, and that's exactly the reason why no politics zones exist, there is always someone yelling about fas…

> I think what op is getting at is that "no politics" rule is what allowed the frog to boil. But this simply isn't the case. The fact that "no politics" zones exist is a response to the fact that politics is everywhere else . People here aren't blissfully unaware, they're just tired of it and many realize that arguing about it on the internet won't accomplish anything other than wasting time. As I sit here writing th…

[flagged]

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#510

Post by gehwartzen »

oxqbldpxo wrote: post #21

And ppl were worried about China's 1984 style use of Ai, lol. In the end it was greedy software developers that enable this.

Some guy on X recently commented on how “dystopian” Flock’s nationwide surveillance is.

Response by Garry Tan (CEO of YC)[1]

“You're thinking Chinese surveillance

US-based surveillance helps victims and prevents more victims”

[1] https://x.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955

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