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Marie Curie Day

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Re: Marie Curie Day

#61
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. Let's face it, Ada Lovelace was a bit of a looker, or at least she was painted that way. She even had a sexy sounding name. We have real, unromantic photographs of Curie on the other hand the reveal her to be rather plain by comparison, plus her name is now linked with a scary unit of radioactive decay! It's a case of the Belle vs the school-marm. We should fight this attitude. Women have a history of being judged…

Everybody is judged by their looks. Einstein is famously nerdy-looking - we celebrate that. I enjoy the photographs of Curie - words like formidable, determined spring to mind.

Irrelevant.

(a) Just because a thing happens doesn't mean that it's right that a thing happens. "Hey murder happens" is not a acceptable response when someone points out that murder is wrong.

(b) Women are often judged much more on their sexual/beauty looks, compared to men. Can you find an instance of a beauty/sexual attractiveness of a male scientist being mentioned?

Re: Marie Curie Day

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case I plead ignorance. I grew up knowing her as Marie Curie and not as Marie Skłodowska-Curie. Who does one pronounce Skłodowska?

yet you did not fix your mistake in your article title, guess you have a lot of fun imagine yourself having fun with your ignorance of some jewish scientist, it's exactly the same problem, even though more Poles died during WWII than jews

There's a simple explanation for that. When I realized that it would be better changed I could not change the submitted title here on Hacker News (they are only editable for a while, an hour I think). So I was stuck with the title I chose; I could have changed the title on my blog but then there would have been a difference between the two. So, I decided to stick with the original title.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#63
post #54

I had read about Lovelace in Doron Swade's works on Babbage, and for a long time was "that guy" who would come into CS love-ins and attempt to correct what I believed at the time were gross exaggerations of her contributions to the field. Eventually I learned to keep my mouth shut since it was usually met with hostility, and more importantly I'm not arrogant enough to think that what I had read by one author is going…

> I was usually told he was widely regarded to hold a grudge against her for some reason no-one really understood.

Who told you that?

For an independent (of Swade) analysis you might like to read Bruce Collier's 1970 PhD thesis (http://robroy.dyndns.info/collier/index.html). This was written well before Swade was on the Babbage case and was based on reading of the primary documents. A couple of quotes from it:

"In the summer of 1843, Menabrea's paper was translated by Ada Augusta, Countess of Lovelace, and only legitimate daughter of Lord Bryon; she composed, in extensive consultation with Babbage, a series of long notes to the paper, which together comprised about three times the length of Menabrea's original version. The whole was published in Richard Taylor's Scientific Memoirs for 1843, 92 under the title "Sketch of the Analytical Engine invented by Charles Babbage, Esq;" this was the only extensive paper on the Analytical Engine published in English during Babbage's life, or, indeed, up to the present. Although it is clear that Lady Lovelace was a woman of considerable interest and talent, and it is clear that she understood to a very considerable degree Babbage's ideas about the general character and significance of the Analytical Engine, and expressed them well in her notes to Menabrea's paper, it is equally clear that the ideas were indeed Babbage's and not hers; indeed, she never made any claim to the contrary. She made a considerable contribution to publicizing the Analytical Engine, but there is no evidence that she advanced the design or theory of it in anyway. And she did not even express an interest in learning about the machine until January 5, 1841, 93 even as late as June 30, 1843, she apparently knew quite little about the mechanical details of the Engine"

"All of this is said not to belittle Lady Lovelace, but because a very exaggerated view has been formed by some recent writers of the significance of her contribution to the Engine or of her role in Babbage's life."

The citations for those parts are Babbage's personal correspondence with Lovelace that are held by the British Museum.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#64
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While she was born Maria Salomea Skłodowska, she studied in Paris and Sorbonne. She was denied higher education in Poland because she was a woman . Later, University of Kraków also rejected her, because she was a woman . It's not nice, but I think it's OK to call her a French scientist. Poland clearly didn't want her. It is an old tradition that best polish scientists, athletes and inventors go abroad. They're not va…

So following that reasoning, a chinese scientist who made his/her PhD and research work in the USA should be called "an american researcher"? I think you can understand that that is not only not nice, but just wrong. If you think that not respecting her because she was a woman was a terrible thing (I agree), then we should not do the same, and as a sign of respect, at least, we should call her by her real name

a chinese scientist who made his/her PhD and research work in the USA should be called "an american researcher"?

Maybe America is a bad example, since we're all about accepting immigrants as Americans. :)

Re: Marie Curie Day

#66
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, Einstein as a absent-minded scientist is a misconception and a product of FBI propaganda. He lived in the era of McCarthy. There were hotels with signs "Dogs and Jews not allowed". Einstein's file in FBI was over 800 pages, they were trying so hard to find an excuse to bust him. Einstein was active in politics and even believed it is his duty as a famous person to promote humanitarian ideas like racial eq…

He didn't wear socks or attend to his appearance. That's not made-up is it?

I don't think your conclusion follows. An analogous proposition would be "Steve Jobs was a careless slob with no sense of style because he wore jeans to his presentations". It's possible that Einstein chose to look exactly the way he did. Or he just didn't care. Not knowing more about Einstein, I couldn't say.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't wear socks or attend to his appearance. That's not made-up is it?

I don't think your conclusion follows. An analogous proposition would be "Steve Jobs was a careless slob with no sense of style because he wore jeans to his presentations". It's possible that Einstein chose to look exactly the way he did. Or he just didn't care. Not knowing more about Einstein, I couldn't say.

What conclusion? That he was nerdy-looking? That's just an observation.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#68
post #12

Marie Curie is undeniably one of the greatest female role-figures in science of the last century. I don't know why she isn't more revered, although perhaps are here are a few reasons why: (Note: I bring them up mostly in hopes of pointing out how silly they are) 1. Her work eventually killed her. There was no way for the Curies to know what effect long-term radiation exposure would have, but it's still not a huge ima…

Here is a #5

Curie is a figurehead of the nuclear era, while Lovelace's importance is seen to be in the genesis of the computer era. Even ignoring the "nuclear == icky" aspect, people (likely rightly) associate computers with something that is more important in their own lives.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#69
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, Einstein as a absent-minded scientist is a misconception and a product of FBI propaganda. He lived in the era of McCarthy. There were hotels with signs "Dogs and Jews not allowed". Einstein's file in FBI was over 800 pages, they were trying so hard to find an excuse to bust him. Einstein was active in politics and even believed it is his duty as a famous person to promote humanitarian ideas like racial eq…

He didn't wear socks or attend to his appearance. That's not made-up is it?

"When I was young, I found out that the big toe always ends up making a hole in the sock," he once said. "So I stopped wearing socks."

He was very bright in many ways, but wasn't perfect. For example he didn't care much for gender equality. Women could just stay in the kitchen as far as he was concerned.

Re: Marie Curie Day

#70
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't wear socks or attend to his appearance. That's not made-up is it?

"When I was young, I found out that the big toe always ends up making a hole in the sock," he once said. "So I stopped wearing socks." He was very bright in many ways, but wasn't perfect. For example he didn't care much for gender equality. Women could just stay in the kitchen as far as he was concerned.

Yet he married such amazing women, each talented in their own way.
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