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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#191

Post by sharkjacobs »

terminalbraid wrote: post #184
sharkjacobs wrote: post #164

I'm not ideologically opposed to making music with AI, but the dream would be new songs which which showcase the new sounds and musical forms that AI enables, like Believe for autotune, or Rumble for electric guitar, or Autobahn for synths. I want a friend to message me like "Hey, there's some interesting stuff happening in the AI music scene, check out these tracks". But everything I've seen is pastiche, either nove…

> new sounds and musical forms Has it done this? Or does it just make things that sound like what it's trained on?

That's why it's the dream.

I mean, even if it's just a pastiche machine, I do believe that people could use it to make new and interesting music, just like they did with sampling.

But yeah, music is so accessible and there is so much new music all the time that if all, or most, of what AI is being used for is to make even more of the same stuff we're already awash in then banning it is necessary curation.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#192

Post by codexon »

ffsm8 wrote: post #188
codexon wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

What??? Every thread on HN that touches on the topic has countless people talking about how LLM generated code is always bad, buggy and people that utilize them are inexperienced juniors that don't understand anything. And they're not completely wrong. If you don't know what you're doing, you'll absolutely create dumster fires instead of software

Sure, I am one of the people who will say that. But where are the people calling for it to be banned? Where are the stores and websites that are banning AI generated software?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#193

Post by marcianx »

don-code wrote: post #123

A few months ago I spoke with the frontman of a local Boston band from the 1980s, who recently re-released a single with the help of AI. The source material was a compact cassette tape from a demo, found in a drawer. He used AI to isolate what would've been individual tracks from the recording, then cleaned them up individually, without AI's help. Does that constitute "wholly or in substantial part"? Would the track…

I think it makes some sense to allow leeway for intelligent "signal processing" using AI (separating out individual tracks, clean-up, etc) vs generating new content with AI.

Similarly, say, for video editors, using AI to more intelligently rotoscope (especially with alpha blending in the presence of motion blur - practically impossible to do it manually), would be a great use of AI, removing the non-creative tedium of the process.

It's not clear where the line is though. I was quite impressed with Corridor Crew's (albeit NVidia+Puget-sponsored) video [1] where they photographed dolls, motion-captured human actors moving like the dolls, and transferred the skeletal animation and facial expressions to those dolls using GenAI. Some of it required nontrivial transformative code to accommodate a skeleton to a toy's body type. There's a massive amount of tedium being removed from the creative process by GenAI without sacrificing the core human creative contribution. This feels like it should be allowed -- I think we should attempt to draw clearer lines where there are clearly efficiency gains to be had to have less "creative" uses be more socially acceptable.

[1]: https://youtu.be/DSRrSO7QhXY

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#194

Post by jatora »

squidsoup wrote: post #173
jatora wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your snobbery will be short-lived as tools eclipse our "art", and creativity is revealed as nothing inherently unique to humans. Creativity, fundamentally, is overlapping memories of what you have seen already. Literally no different than any diffusion or transformer model. You painting a piece of art or composing a song was really the functional output of billions of cells coordinating in unison, 100% subconsciously…

> Creativity, fundamentally, is overlapping memories of what you have seen already. Literally no different than any diffusion or transformer model. Every individual has a unique experience, and assimilates different things from their experiences depending on their personal tastes and culture. That is profoundly different from a model which assimilates the output of hundreds of thousands of individuals. A model has no…

Do you really think a human creating something isn't the output of assimilating the outputs of countless humans that came before them?

Your argument implies creativity is confined to humans or brains. So no creativity existed before that? Weird. Lucky for us that evolution spawned creativity then!

If you could answer that question then that should help me understand, since you say it is trivial to verifiably prove my position wrong

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#195

Post by puzu »

I am not against AI art but this would better to be contained in specific platforms, you could browse Suno for AI music and Bandcamp for human music. You would'nt display some generative art piece next to a Rembrandt. Also, Bandcamp could enshittified by a flood of AI music and change the fees or terms, so please no.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#196

Post by terminalbraid »

ceroxylon wrote: post #35

It will be interesting to see how/where the line is drawn on "in substantial part", considering that Logic Pro lets you click a button and adjust some sliders to add an (awful, imo) drum/instrument played by AI to your track.

But that's absolutely not generative AI (which bandcamp explicitly stated the policy is for) and it's not even classifiable as traditional AI. The session tracks are just some base patterns selected by sliders attached to options adjust stuff like "play these notes in an inverted chord".

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#197

Post by netbsdusers »

codexon wrote: post #183
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

The pushback is motivated by the interests of the petty-bourgeois class, and those are a larger proportion of the former.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#198

Post by soulofmischief »

sodapopcan wrote: post #176
anthonypasq wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You're just mad that people actually like AI music. Yes, I am! I'm also mad that people like shitty over-produced pop, though (including me sometimes), so what can you do. Life is shit.

Let people enjoy what they like. It makes it easier to just sit back and enjoy what you like.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#199

Post by strangecasts »

don-code wrote: post #123

A few months ago I spoke with the frontman of a local Boston band from the 1980s, who recently re-released a single with the help of AI. The source material was a compact cassette tape from a demo, found in a drawer. He used AI to isolate what would've been individual tracks from the recording, then cleaned them up individually, without AI's help. Does that constitute "wholly or in substantial part"? Would the track…

I think any line is necessarily going to be arbitrary, a blanket ban on any ML model being used in production would be plainly impossible -- using Ozone's EQ assistant or having a Markov chain generate your chord progressions could also count towards "in substantial part", but are equally hard to object to.

But we also live with arbitrary lines elsewhere, as with spam filters? People generally don't want ads for free Viagra, and spam filters remain the default without making "no marketing emails" a hard rule.

The problem isn't that music Transformers can't be used artfully [1] but that they allow a kind of spam which distribution services aren't really equipped to handle. In 2009, nobody would have stopped you from producing albums en masse with the generative tech of the day, Microsoft's Songsmith [2], but you would have had a hard time selling them - but hands-off distribution services like DistroKid and improved models makes music spam much more viable now than it was previously.

[1] I personally find neural synthesis models like RAVE autoencoders nifty: https://youtu.be/HC0L5ZH21kw

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Research_Songsmith as ...demoed? in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg0l7f25bhU

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#200

Post by cess11 »

LTL_FTC wrote: post #132
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a fad. The platforms will soon learn that the vocal minority is not necessarily their best customer. And then they'll slowly / quietly revert their bans or stop enforcing them. If people listen to music, they like the music, and it can come from wherever. Gatekeeping never works.

These are my thoughts exactly. If people enjoy the music, they will listen to it. If they don't, they wont.

They can get their "AI" music in many other places, there's no reason for Bandcamp specifically to provide it.

As of yet Bandcamp hasn't tried to become an 'everything is here' kind of distributor, but rather more tailored to small, niche, quality &c. artists, and not consumers. Kind of the opposite to Spotify.

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