I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.
I just watched for 5 min and no they don't play very well. Deepseek squeezed with K4o against CO open and BTN call with full stacks. Grok 3b AI with 25bb in the button with Q4s. Those are very far from optimal play which is well known since solvers. I wonder how they've been trained.
Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
81–90 of 101 posts
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK so you know how it goes in poker and I should probably read the literature ... How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"? What I am getting at, is how different is poker than say roulette or blackjack? My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino, so it must be mostly indeterminate. I imagine that the casino versions of poker are not TXHT.…
> My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino Why not? Because you think it's a game where the casino can lose? If so it's not an issue, as casinos that provide poker take "fees" from the stakes. Like how stock exchanges work: there are people making or losing money from stock market, but exchanges are always making profit.
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#83I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.
I'm actually surprised at how well they play pre-flop (mostly). Did some initial analysis on VPIP/PFR across positions, and somewhat decent. Post-flop on the other hand is all over the place...
in fact, a fun project would be take a non-reasoning model, play on a lesser known game format, and see if it learns an "a ha" moment or explicitly simulate moves ahead
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect this would only matter much if they also remembered (and cared about) their own prior play.
Not really. Only as far as their table image mattered--in this case, zero. Otherwise, you can and should ignore your own past play. What I'm curious about is if their innate training is enough to give them biases. Like maybe they think Grok is full of shit.
Right; there's feedback to it. When humans play poker, they do so with common knowledge of the fact that humans have object permanence and can recognize and remember their opponents. The same thing that motivates "profiling" a villain, motivates attempting to project a table image, which in turn motivates being aware of the table image one is projecting.
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#85I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.
OK so you know how it goes in poker and I should probably read the literature ... How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"? What I am getting at, is how different is poker than say roulette or blackjack? My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino, so it must be mostly indeterminate. I imagine that the casino versions of poker are not TXHT.…
Several good answers here, but I will add my own take.
“Playing the odds” is basically playing good, fundamental poker. This is a baseline that most players will use when sitting down at a table of unknown players. This is often called a “balanced” strategy (note some people erroneously call this “GTO strategy, assuming the balance, which is not actually what GTO is).
“Reading players” is a thing, but it can be broken up into (at least) two categories: 1) physical tells, and 2) player habits.
Physical tells is not a big thing. Some people give off a lot of tells, but some folks are also decent (not good) at giving reverse tells. Honestly, you can be a wildly successful poker player while knowing nothing about physical tells.
(Side note: One of the most reliable tells is bet timing tells. This can sometimes even be a tell online, especially when people are taking shots at higher stakes or are deep in a tournament. It can also be faked, but some folks are super reliable with timing tells, and they don’t realize it.)
The second kind of tell is player tendencies — things like when players play too many hands or when they play too few (e.g., fold too often).
One very reliable way for good players to smooth out their earnings curve is figure out which players fold too often and in which spots. Once they’ve figured that out, they try to set up that spot and basically print low-risk (sometimes even no-risk) chips.
Taking advantage of these tendencies is called an “exploitative” strategy (as opposed to the “balanced” strategy mentioned above).
Really good players can take rec players on a journey through a series of emotions (and accompanying predictable gameplay) such that the good player can read the rec player like a book. The odds tip heavily in favor of the good player at this point.
Pro player and strong amateur players are so far ahead of recs in ways that the recs don’t even realize.
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#86I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.
OK so you know how it goes in poker and I should probably read the literature ... How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"? What I am getting at, is how different is poker than say roulette or blackjack? My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino, so it must be mostly indeterminate. I imagine that the casino versions of poker are not TXHT.…
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#87I just saw GPT 5.2 do something absurd. It has a crazy amount of money ($26k) but folded with a 4-pair before the flop. That's insanely conservative, when it would have cost just $20 to see the flop. But even worse, on the very next hand it decided to place $20 down with a 5 and 4 of different suits. In fact, all of them love folding before the flop. Most of the hands I'm seeing go like - $10 (small blind), $20 (big…
Modern poker (which tbf not sure if these LLMs are acting according to modern GTO or not) is highly dependent on position. Things change a lot too when/if you are in SB/BB.
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#88Do the players (LLMs) have memory of how prior hands were played by their opponents, or know their VPIP and PFR percentages? Or is each hand stateless?
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Modern poker (which tbf not sure if these LLMs are acting according to modern GTO or not) is highly dependent on position. Things change a lot too when/if you are in SB/BB.
Yes, the prompt tries to get them to play GTO. I do think their preflop play is the closest to mirroring this compared to postflop behavior.
Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other
#90Was this vibe-coded: https://imgur.com/a/GvxA3mD ?