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Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

llmholdem.com

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Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#71

Post by stevage »

furyofantares wrote: post #30
gerdesj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK so you know how it goes in poker and I should probably read the literature ... How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"? What I am getting at, is how different is poker than say roulette or blackjack? My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino, so it must be mostly indeterminate. I imagine that the casino versions of poker are not TXHT.…

Hold'em is offered in casinos routinely, I'm not sure where else one even goes to play it aside from private games, but it is not against the casino. It's against other players, and the casino takes a percentage of the pot. Others may differ and I am biased because 99% of my play has been online, but I'd say it's almost entirely playing the odds. Or at least, the popular romantic conception of looking for tells or wh…

Around here (Melbourne) the other place is in pubs - there are organised poker tournaments. They can't legally charge you an entry fee, but they can give you a lot of extra chips if you buy a meal at the pub. Some modest prizes if you win.

They're kind of a ridiculous format - you typically start with about 20 BB but the blinds go up pretty quickly so you don't see a lot of post-flop play.

Somewhat entertaining.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#72

Post by nindalf »

I just saw GPT 5.2 do something absurd. It has a crazy amount of money ($26k) but folded with a 4-pair before the flop. That's insanely conservative, when it would have cost just $20 to see the flop. But even worse, on the very next hand it decided to place $20 down with a 5 and 4 of different suits.

In fact, all of them love folding before the flop. Most of the hands I'm seeing go like - $10 (small blind), $20 (big blind), fold, $70 bet, everyone folds. The site says "won $100", but in most of these cases that one LLM is picking up the blinds alone - $30. Chump change.

This is illuminating, but not a resource for learning poker.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#74

Post by aaurelions »

I also started working on a similar project, but I think that LLM should know and be able to keep internal statistics about players. In poker, the best hand does not always win. Often, you can win by using emotions/words. LLM should be given the ability to communicate, mislead, etc.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#75

Post by indigodaddy »

nindalf wrote: post #72

I just saw GPT 5.2 do something absurd. It has a crazy amount of money ($26k) but folded with a 4-pair before the flop. That's insanely conservative, when it would have cost just $20 to see the flop. But even worse, on the very next hand it decided to place $20 down with a 5 and 4 of different suits. In fact, all of them love folding before the flop. Most of the hands I'm seeing go like - $10 (small blind), $20 (big…

Modern poker (which tbf not sure if these LLMs are acting according to modern GTO or not) is highly dependent on position. Things change a lot too when/if you are in SB/BB.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#78

Post by firefax »

gerdesj wrote: post #27
sejje wrote: post #19

I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.

OK so you know how it goes in poker and I should probably read the literature ... How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"? What I am getting at, is how different is poker than say roulette or blackjack? My initial thoughts are that poker such as TX hold 'em is not a game offered in a casino, so it must be mostly indeterminate. I imagine that the casino versions of poker are not TXHT.…

>How much of a session is based on "reading players" vs "playing the odds"?

I think the key is you need to watch for a person's play style.

There's a two axis system: tight/agressive and passive/active.

An active player sees more flops, and an aggressive player will call and raise more than a tight player.

So a tight, aggressive player sees few flows but bets strongly when they have a good hand -- this is considered "good" strategy.

Others might play a "tight-passive" strategy -- they'll play few hands but fold easily. They won't lose large amounts of money but they'll slowly bleed chips.

A loose, aggeessive player is the type you want at the table -- they're making a lot of bets, and often bluffing, and you can sit and wait to catch them.

Now, this is "reading" someone, but it's not the Rounders style "oh he just ate an oreo so he's bluffing" level reading of a player that movies

For context, I'm an OK player. I can make a few hundred playing 1/3 per session -- I'm not in Vegas so I can't move to the next tier without sinking a lot of money on a flight and hotel.

If your goal is a bit of beer money, it can be a fun hobby, but I wouldn't go into it expecting it to become a full time career.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#79

Post by bionsystem »

sejje wrote: post #19

I used to play professionally, and I still play in the casinos. These LLMs are playing better than most human players I encounter (low limits). They're kinda bad, but not as criminally bad as the humans.

I just watched for 5 min and no they don't play very well. Deepseek squeezed with K4o against CO open and BTN call with full stacks. Grok 3b AI with 25bb in the button with Q4s. Those are very far from optimal play which is well known since solvers. I wonder how they've been trained.

Re: Show HN: Play poker with LLMs, or watch them play against each other

#80

Post by jplata »

Thanks for building and sharing, looks cool and is very entertaining.

I had similar idea for people to code poker playing bots and enter tournaments versus each other, this was pre-llm, however.

It would be fun if you hosted a 'tournament' every month and had each of the latest releases from the major models participate and see who comes out on top.

Or perhaps do open it up to others to enter and participate versus each other - where they can choose the model they want to build with and also enter custom prompt instructions to mold the play as they wish.

If you walk this path, would love to chat more.

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