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AI is a business model stress test

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Re: AI is a business model stress test

#111

Post by drivebyhooting »

venndeezl wrote: post #101
drivebyhooting wrote: post #4

In my opinion LLMs are intellectual property theft. Just as if I started distributing copies of books. This substantially reduces the incentive for the creation of new IP. All written text, art work, etc needs to come imbued with a GPL style license: if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published.

In my opinion information wants to be free. It's wild to me seeing the tech world veer into hyper-capitalism and IP protectionism. Complete 180 from the 00s. IMO copyright laws should be rewritten to bring copyright inline with the rest of the economy. Plumbers are not claiming use fees from the pipes they installed a decade ago. Doctor isn't getting paid by a 70 year old for saving the 70 year old when they were in…

Excuse me, but even if in principle of “information wants to be free”, the actual outcome of LLMs is the opposite of democratizing information and access. It completely centralizes accesses, censorship, and profits in the hands of a few mega corporations.

It is completely against the spirit of information wants to be free. Using that catch phrase in protection of mega corps is a travesty.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#112

Post by christophilus »

azangru wrote: post #105
znnajdla wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used plain CSS for more than a decade and felt the benefits of Tailwind within 10 minutes of getting started. What fueled the growth of Tailwind is that it makes web development palpably easier.

Do you remember what made it click for you? What was the hard part of writing plain CSS that tailwind made significantly easier?

CSS requires discipline, or you end up accidentally styling something completely unrelated because you were overly general, or overly specific, or accidentally reused a class name. CSS disallows local reasoning. If you’re writing markup for a component, you have to jump between two files.

There are plenty of other problems Tailwind solves, but these two alone make me never want to go back.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#113

Post by Animats »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #4

In my opinion LLMs are intellectual property theft. Just as if I started distributing copies of books. This substantially reduces the incentive for the creation of new IP. All written text, art work, etc needs to come imbued with a GPL style license: if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published.

Education can be viewed as intellectual property theft. There have been periods in history when it was. "How to take an elevation from a plan" was a trade secret of medieval builders and only revealed to guild members. How a power loom works was export-controlled information in the 1800s, and people who knew how a loom works were not allowed to emigrate from England.

The problem is that LLMs are better than people at this stuff. They can read a huge quantity of publicly available information and organize it into a form where the LLM can do things with it. That's what education does, more slowly and at greater expense.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#114

Post by gck1 »

antirez wrote: post #39

> You can't prompt 99.95% uptime on Black Friday. Neither can you prompt your way to keeping a site secure, updated, and running. This is completely wrong. Agents will not just be able to write code, like they do now, but will also be able to handle operations, security, continuing to check, and improve the systems, tirelessly.

I'm working on a project now and what you're saying is already true. I have agents that are able to handle other things apart from code.

But these are MY agents. They are given access to MY domain knowledge in the way that I configured. They have rules as defined by ME over the course of multi-week research and decision making. And the interaction between my agents is also defined and enforced by me.

Can someone come up with a god-agent that will do all of this? Probably. Is it going to work in practice? Highly unlikely.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#115

Post by venndeezl »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #111
venndeezl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion information wants to be free. It's wild to me seeing the tech world veer into hyper-capitalism and IP protectionism. Complete 180 from the 00s. IMO copyright laws should be rewritten to bring copyright inline with the rest of the economy. Plumbers are not claiming use fees from the pipes they installed a decade ago. Doctor isn't getting paid by a 70 year old for saving the 70 year old when they were in…

Excuse me, but even if in principle of “information wants to be free”, the actual outcome of LLMs is the opposite of democratizing information and access. It completely centralizes accesses, censorship, and profits in the hands of a few mega corporations. It is completely against the spirit of information wants to be free. Using that catch phrase in protection of mega corps is a travesty.

LLMs are just a concept, an abstraction. A data type for storing data.

The actual problem is political. Has nothing to do with LLMs.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#116

Post by mirekrusin »

heliumtera wrote: post #97
staticassertion wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this support your point? If we're saying "they fixed it because there was pressure to"... okay? That's the parents point - tons of people are going to move off over bad performance, and Github was incentivized to fix it when people started moving off. If Github's incentive was to keep it slow... we wouldn't have seen exactly what you're describing.

The fix already existed and was neglected for a decade. It was a 3 lines of bash code. The big would commonly make a runner hang forever unnoticed, on a platform that charged by the minute. One minute hanging, was one minute charged. The fix that would drop considerably the amount of total minutes charged was immediately followed by charging self hosted runners by the minute. >GitHub incentive was to make it fast. Th…

They reverted this decision/change.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#117

Post by aleksandrm »

znnajdla wrote: post #100
azangru wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If suddenly CSS became pleasant to use, Tailwind would be in a rough spot. CSS is pleasant to use. I know I find it pleasant to use; and I know there are quite a few frontend developers who do too. I didn't pay much attention to tailwind, until suddenly I realized that it has spread like wildfire and now is everywhere. What drove that growth? Which groups were the first adopters of tailwind; how did they grow; when…

I used plain CSS for more than a decade and felt the benefits of Tailwind within 10 minutes of getting started. What fueled the growth of Tailwind is that it makes web development palpably easier.

What were the benefits that you felt instantly? I still don't feel anything and would prefer plain CSS over Tailwind any day.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#118

Post by blitz_skull »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #4

In my opinion LLMs are intellectual property theft. Just as if I started distributing copies of books. This substantially reduces the incentive for the creation of new IP. All written text, art work, etc needs to come imbued with a GPL style license: if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published.

The idea of being able to “steal” ideas is absolutely silly.

Yeah we’ve got a legal system for it, but it always has been and always will be silly.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#119

Post by kachapopopow »

ronsor wrote: post #108
kachapopopow wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPL is not only a copyright license, it also covers multiple types of intellectual property rights. Especially when you consider GPL-3 which has explicit IP protection while GPL-2 is implicit, so yah you're partially right for GPL-2 and wrong for GPL-3.

It's true that GPLv3 covers patents, but it is still primarily a copyright license. The tokenizer's tokens aren't patented, for sure. They can't be trademarked (they don't identify a product or service). They aren't a trade secret (the data is public). They aren't copyrighted (not a creative work). And the GPL explicitly preserves fair use rights, so there are no contractual restrictions either. A tokenizer is effect…

I mean okay sure, there is no legal framework for tokenizers, but what about the rest of the model I think there is a much stronger argument there? And you could realistically extend the logic that if the model is GPL-2.0 licensed you have to provide all the tools to replicate it which would include the tokenizer.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#120

Post by camdenreslink »

lacoolj wrote: post #86

Companies providing AI services should offer ads for the things the AI is using. And I don't mean "Tailwind could pay Google to advertise in Gemini", I mean "Google should be clearly and obviously linking back to Tailwind when it uses the library in its output" They already do this sort of thing inside outputs from Deep Research, and possibly without. But the output should be less muted, inline, recessed and more "I…

The number one rule of these apps is don’t link outside the app (because then the user will stop their session).
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