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Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

karl-voit.at

91–100 of 221 posts

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> approximately nothing else supports it. That's simply not true. There are numerous android and iOS apps that support it. There are implementations for Vim and other editors besides Emacs. GitHub supports it, for example. I have not found a satisfactory (to me) solution for note-taking in Markdown that is open-source, plain-text, and mobile-friendly with local (non-cloud) sync. (Except for maybe Logseq, which appear…

I've used those apps and the problem is that they only support a tiny subset of the format, and they can't support any of the features that require the rest of emacs to be present which is a lot of of the value. If you're okay with the stripped down version that's basically markdown but different and that's fine but I feel like most people fall in love with org mode because it's so powerful once you get it going and…

Both Orgzly-revived and Orgro support a lot more than a tiny subset of the Org format.

Do they support tangling of source code and export to all the formats that Emacs's Org-mode supports? Of course not. But they have all of what I expect for a knowledge-base on my phone, which is a lot more than Markdown was ever intended for.

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#92

All well and good, but some Org Mode markup symbols are badly chosen if the purpose is human-to-human communication, and that is a profound demerit for a system that purports to structure and facilitate human-to-human communication. Most notably, asterisks are not good section headers. Pound signs are. So people are not going to switch from Markdown for most purposes. It feels really wrong. And they will generally pr…

> Perhaps Org Mode reskinned to look more like Markdown.

or, reskinned to look visually whatever one wants...

https://sophiebos.io/posts/beautifying-emacs-org-mode/

https://zzamboni.org/post/beautifying-org-mode-in-emacs/

I mention this, because I am not particular about which character symbolises what as long as it is consistent and documented.

However, some people do want things to look just so, and for them, few tools come close to Emacs orgmode.

One can certainly reskin the plaintext rendering to show up however one wants. This has the downside of "two systems" though, e.g. type ** but see it insta-rendered as ###. Although, I rarely type headings like that (character by character). I use the keybindings to "make header", "indent", "de-indent" etc.

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#94
post #43

AFAICT org-mode has no spec. Still. Decades later. The only spec is a single implementation. Which is probably why approximately nothing else supports it. CommonMark on the other hand is very widely supported and all of them work great together. I'll stick to CommonMark.

Isn't that true of python as well? I would argue that Github's decision to use markdown for formatting, more than any other, is what resulted in its widespread adoption to other use cases. The simple tool to share code ate the world.

I'm continually surprised that Microsoft hasn't completely cornered the market on LLM code generation, given their head start with copilot and ready access to source code on a scale that nobody else really has.

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#95

All well and good, but some Org Mode markup symbols are badly chosen if the purpose is human-to-human communication, and that is a profound demerit for a system that purports to structure and facilitate human-to-human communication. Most notably, asterisks are not good section headers. Pound signs are. So people are not going to switch from Markdown for most purposes. It feels really wrong. And they will generally pr…

> Perhaps Org Mode reskinned to look more like Markdown. or , reskinned to look visually whatever one wants... https://sophiebos.io/posts/beautifying-emacs-org-mode/ https://zzamboni.org/post/beautifying-org-mode-in-emacs/ I mention this, because I am not particular about which character symbolises what as long as it is consistent and documented . However, some people do want things to look just so , and for them, fe…

Precisely. Emacs folks often talk about how incredibly powerful and flexible their system is, so working with a reskinned Org Mode markup system when dealing with other people's stuff should be completely trivial for them, right? They should consider accommodating less technically sophisticated people for whom different notations are a bigger burden, no?

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#96

All well and good, but some Org Mode markup symbols are badly chosen if the purpose is human-to-human communication, and that is a profound demerit for a system that purports to structure and facilitate human-to-human communication. Most notably, asterisks are not good section headers. Pound signs are. So people are not going to switch from Markdown for most purposes. It feels really wrong. And they will generally pr…

What's cool about Org isn't the symbols, but the semantics of a tree with tags, TODOs (along agenda & scheduling), and code blocks.

Org had the problem that a single implementation gained too many features and went underspecified, making the language unusable outside of emacs. Markdown has the reverse problem, lots of implementations with variance that leave you with the lowest common denominator (there's specs, but IMO having many specs is pretty much having no spec, just many implemenattions)

It'd be cool to see a language that standardised Org features, but tried hard to keep things readable/compatible with markdown.

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#97
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can type *word* without it becoming bold? So an article can contain: "The logs come to about ~300 lines once you start the server with ~systemctl start fnord~" The `code` equivalent in Org is ~code~. How do you type that without the Org highlighting removing the ~ from "~300 lines", thinking that the code snippet begins there? This is an example I got from grepping my org files for U+200B.

I see. Just gave it a try and backslash works as escape. Though also I'm probably unlikely to experience such issues myself as my Emacs theme shows formatting characters even after applying the formatting.

The following:

  \~300 lines
Still exports as

\~300 lines

(in case of an HTML export). In fact you could "escape it" with any character, the backslash isn't doing anything special, the formatting just doesn't trigger if there's no white space on one side. When I use Org I also do not have auto-formatting, as you do, but the highlighting would still be wrong. And it'd be masochistic to put up with that unless you've invested a lot into Org for other reasons.

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps Org Mode reskinned to look more like Markdown. or , reskinned to look visually whatever one wants... https://sophiebos.io/posts/beautifying-emacs-org-mode/ https://zzamboni.org/post/beautifying-org-mode-in-emacs/ I mention this, because I am not particular about which character symbolises what as long as it is consistent and documented . However, some people do want things to look just so , and for them, fe…

Precisely. Emacs folks often talk about how incredibly powerful and flexible their system is, so working with a reskinned Org Mode markup system when dealing with other people's stuff should be completely trivial for them, right? They should consider accommodating less technically sophisticated people for whom different notations are a bigger burden, no?

The problem isn't customising your editor to use the symbol you want, but to have a spec that allows freely sharing files back and forth without trouble.

Org has no specification other editors can follow (although people have tried adding support to other editors and also writing such a spec).

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#99

Sure. And driving on the left is one of the most reasonable sides of the road to drive on, but in a country where everyone drives on the right, it’s good to accept that, though driving on the left offers just as many advantages, nonetheless you shouldn’t insist on continuing to do so. Markdown is also one of the most reasonable markup languages to use for text, and it has won sufficient share that it should be your d…

As long as we're telling people they should conform to what everyone else uses, why aren't you using Microsoft Word format instead?

Re: Org Mode syntax is one of the most reasonable markup languages for text (2017)

#100
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the use case for escaping its syntax? At top level it's just an arbitrarily nested list.

I use org a lot, in fact, it's my daily driver. I also have to deal with MySQL, and, if using the vertical output (what you get if you finish a query with '\G' instead of ';' it makes pasting into an org file a pain. Sure, not a big pain, I just wrapped it in a function paste-from-mysql that appends the whitespace, but then I need to take out the whitespace of I want to paste that somewhere else. It would be nice to…

Have you tried literal examples?

https://orgmode.org/manual/Literal-Examples.html

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