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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#341

Post by bflesch »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #285
hermanzegerman wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tech and speech regulation is a central feature of that conflict" The only conflict is that Europeans don't want Russian Misinformation and Manipulation from foreign powers onto them. It's no accident that Musks X serves preferentially content from European Far-Right Parties. The US used the same argument for their TikTok-Ban/Forced Takeover. They also don't make a secret out of their plan to push the far-right to e…

[flagged]

There is a big difference between right to free speech by citizens of a certain country vs. someone working in the military propaganda unit of a foreign country who artificially amplifies their opinion thousandfold while masquerading as a citizen of the victim country with ultimate goal to harm the victim country.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#342

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

Foxboron wrote: post #318
ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the fine amounts to over 200% of Italy-sourced revenue ($17 million fine vs. $8 million in revenue in 2024). Why would you continue doing business in Italy?

They are a conglomerate and per Matthews words "an internet infrastructure provider". Why does the local revenue matter when they are serving a global market? EDIT: And fwiw, "Why would you continue doing business in Italy?" is not what is being proposed. They are threatening to block 55 million people from ~20% of the world wide web.

Because they only violated the "law" in a local market (Italy) .

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#344

Post by tick_tock_tick »

oytis wrote: post #312
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they've certainly turned their back on classic western values like free speech and expression.

No? We've never had such an absolutist view on the freedom of speech as American Constitution holds. We still have enough of it to keep the political debate open to all points of view though (with a reservation for the paradox of tolerance)

> We still have enough of it to keep the political debate open to all points of view though (with a reservation for the paradox of tolerance)

If you're going to reference Popper go read his work he'd spit in your face for suggesting your current censorship and jailing of citizen is in anyway to fix his "paradox of tolerance".

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#345

Post by OkayPhysicist »

NamlchakKhandro wrote: post #180
qsort wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Italian. I think everybody sucks here? Most Italian authorities like this one are chock full of incompetents, and I'm almost sure they're just caving in to some soccer broadcaster or some crap like that. He might very well be fully correct on the fact of the matter. Still, the rhetoric of the post is frankly disgusting. No, I'm not taking lessons in democracy from JD Vance, thank you very much. No, I don't think…

But might does make rights. Because all it takes is men with guns to change what rights you think you have. If you can't defend yourself against that then you have no rights.

You're conflating rights with freedoms, which is the same category error as confusing legality with morality.

Your rights are, by their nature inalienable. They are recognized (or not) by individual power structures, granting you freedoms.

Under an authoritarian regime, your freedoms maybe be limited, for example, your right to free speech may be curtailed by men with guns. Killing those men is illegal, but not unethical, exactly because they are infringing your rights.

This all may seem academic to the person with a boot on their throat, but it dictates how outsiders view one's actions.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#346

Post by [deleted] »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #282
oytis wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Europe is not an authoritarian dystopia by any measure. Economic growth or lack of thereof is absolutely irrelevant here

> Western Europe is not an authoritarian dystopia by any measure People are locked up in the Germany and the UK because they criticize the government, its politicians or their policies. I live in Germany.

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#347

Post by betaby »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #300

I don’t understand why they are tying the fine amount to global revenue rather than Italian revenue. Any Italian here who can explain it ?

It's pretty common in fact for certain countries, see for example https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-fines-google-20-de...

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#348

Post by immibis »

joe_mamba wrote: post #250
hermanzegerman wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tech and speech regulation is a central feature of that conflict" The only conflict is that Europeans don't want Russian Misinformation and Manipulation from foreign powers onto them. It's no accident that Musks X serves preferentially content from European Far-Right Parties. The US used the same argument for their TikTok-Ban/Forced Takeover. They also don't make a secret out of their plan to push the far-right to e…

>They also don't make a secret out of their plan to push the far-right to end the EU. How is the "far right" gonna end "the EU"? When my GF walks alone at night through the parks she's never EVER afraid of the mythical far right for her safety, but the other people the far left won't let us talk about without being called a label and being cancelled from MSM for having common sense opinions. So if the EU were to find…

I'm sure you understand the fact that an alliance of countries is not held together by the absence of serial killers hiding in parks at night, yeah? Europe has rather famous historical knowledge of what the far right can do, and how it can destroy a country, and it has nothing to do with parks at night.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#349

Post by Foxboron »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #342
Foxboron wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a conglomerate and per Matthews words "an internet infrastructure provider". Why does the local revenue matter when they are serving a global market? EDIT: And fwiw, "Why would you continue doing business in Italy?" is not what is being proposed. They are threatening to block 55 million people from ~20% of the world wide web.

Because they only violated the "law" in a local market (Italy) .

And the correct response to that is to write up a threat towards the entire population of a country?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#350

Post by betaby »

gibbsnich wrote: post #202

If american corps do not want to play according to European rules: go ahead, just stop doing business in Europe. Europe will be fine! Understand that there are other things than the US‘s commercial interests even though it seems ATM that’s everything the US is: commercial interests. On the east, on the west: Wake up!

> Europe will be fine!

Unfortunately, no. Europe is not fine and won't be fine anytime soon. CloudFlare's situation is one of the cases.

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