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Let's call a murder a murder

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Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#81

Post by lostmsu »

tim333 wrote: post #39
lostmsu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've lost the link to the main one I was thinking of but there are some pictures here https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/2009319825554985218 It's not quite as clear cut as I thought as the car maybe nudged the shooter but the driver had definitely turned the steering away from him and was trying to miss him and get away. Also the car's direction didn't change after the shots were fired and it didn't come close to runn…

There's a frame in the YouTube video I linked where the officer is right in front of the car, the car wheel is still turned toward the driver window (so if no steering is done it would run over the officer, moreover it is directed to where the officer ends up in the end), and the front wheels with a skid starts pulling the car forward in that direction. In fact, the car goes toward the officer for about 15 frames of the video and only visibly changes direction for 1 or 2 frames just before the shot (mind you that's less than 100ms at 30fps), after the gun is pulled out and pointed straight at the window.

I would refrain from making any judgment on that because I don't know the intricacies of the law, but it is certainly not "clear" as a lot of people here seem to claim. I suspect most never watched the video in detail or interpreted it with hindsight.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#82

Post by techblueberry »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #74
techblueberry wrote: post #4

Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.

His failure to do his job correctly multiple times isn't justification for the murder of a 37 year old mother and the orphaning of her child. Most sane government agencies would make sure he knew and started following the required protocol so that he would be safe/competent the next time before putting him back on the street. Yet he again failed to do his job and follow protocol, and stood in front of a vehicle. Seem…

Agreed! Why wasn’t he removed from duty when he fucked up the first time! Like I said, it’s now a trend the the makes bad decisions when cars are present.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#83

Post by lostmsu »

rozap wrote: post #68
lostmsu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Officers are trained to never approach from the front. Shooting a driver in a vehicle headed towards you does not stop the vehicle. This officer ignored all of his training because he wanted to kill someone. It's unconscionable to defend it.

[flagged]

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#84

Post by eps »

duxup wrote: post #60
techblueberry wrote: post #4

Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.

Considering the behavior of ICE, it seems like they hired some folks just desperate to find legal cover to shoot someone. There are numerous videos of them casually drawing their weapons on protesters. https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen ... https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin ...

The whole MO of ICE is that of intimidation. That's really their raison de être in the agency's current format.

They are effectively a paramilitary enforcing the agenda. Parallels with the 1930s Germany are really explicitly uncanny.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#85

Post by bananabiscuit »

I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming.

Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initial attempt was the loss of traction due to the icy road.

After that, indeed the wheels were pointing away from the officer and arguably there was no more danger to him, but after the clear attempt to hit him, you cannot realistically expect the officer, in a split second, to re-evaluate if her intentions to hurt anybody changed or not. At this point his life was already threatened. He doesn’t know what she is doing and waiting to find out could mean that he is dead.

[1] https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/2008984798271094791

[2] https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2009683575298211979

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#86

Post by [deleted] »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #85

I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming. Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initi…

[deleted]

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#87

Post by culi »

solid_fuel wrote: post #5

The nature of our current political crisis is changing by the minute, and with every fascist act this administration emboldens the next wave of left wing opposition. The moderate position for future liberal candidates is now the full dissolution of ICE. The more radical position - which is rapidly gaining support - is the arrest and prosecution of everyone involved in this administration. Starting with the president…

ICE was only created in 2003. We had a time before ICE and we need to go back to it

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#88

Post by culi »

KittenInABox wrote: post #8

Inquiry, since I know anti immigrant sentiment is on the rise in other countries. How are other countries increasing their enforcement of their immigration laws? Are there also chaotic situations where their immigration enforcers are shooting people in cars? Are there better ways for rising anti-immigrant sentiment to result in stricter enforcement with less violence?

Around the world, anti-immigrant sentiment is a minority viewpoint. At least it was in 2019

https://www.pewresearch.org/global-migration-and-demography/...

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#89

Post by throwawayqqq11 »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #85

I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming. Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initi…

It gets quite clear, when you change the setup a little bit.

1) Make the PO a regular human without a gun and you can imagine, that any normal person would have made just a quick sidestep to avoid collision, like most of us have experienced in person too. Use of force was totally unjustified, esp. when you combine it with:

2) Change the intetion of the driver to really want to harm the person ~2m in front of the car. Cop get trained, that you should not use your gun on close encounters with knives, bc the short distance It is _very_ obvious. 2/3 shots hit the side of the car and the front wheel _never_ pointed at the PO.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#90

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #85

I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming. Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initi…

ICE has routinely done much worse driving, on video, to/at people protesting them. Are you saying ICE has REPEATEDLY, ON FILM, attempted murder? And that neither their leadership, nor the ICE protestors, cared about these video taped attempted murder attempts?

Are you calling for ICE to be prosecuted for attempted murder for such actions if they are on film? Up until now ICE administrators were just fine with their officers doing equal/worse than what this now dead woman did. Or is it this administration's policy that some animals are more equal than others. Reminder the day before this occurred the officials that called the murdered woman a terrorist said that Jan6 was peaceful.

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