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Let's call a murder a murder

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Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#51

Post by folbec »

xtracto wrote: post #38
tastyface wrote: post #25

What I find even more horrifying than the murder is the response from people in power. Lying. Calling the victim a terrorist. Claiming she deserved it. Expressing unequivocal support for the killer. Threatening more of the same for the opposition. Posting fucking memes! Not even a hint of sympathy anywhere to be seen. These people are animals. They should be in chains in front of a tribunal, not running the country.…

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command" - 1984 I've found the reaction from most people in the US horrifying since the "grab em by the pussy" days...

I personally think that the more appropriate quote from 1984 is this one, because the cruelty is the whole point :

“The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.” He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: “How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?”

Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said.

“Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating?[...]”"

1984.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#52

Post by y0eswddl »

Atreiden wrote: post #43
addandsubtract wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'S PoLiTiCaL

As self-proclaimed hackers who are part of a community whose core values include curiosity and critical thinking, we do ourselves, and the world, a massive disservice by closing our eyes and ears to important information just because it's political in nature. Hacker culture and fascism are antithetical, and we should all be acutely aware when the current regime moves towards violence to squash dissent.

i know the site moniker is "hacker news" but the tech industry at large is the furthest thing from being anything resembling a collective of hackers...

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#53

Post by metadope »

thefz wrote: post #28
vdupras wrote: post #11

And it's flagged, of course. Will somebody vouch for this? I know what you're thinking. This doesn't encourage curiosity! This is politics! Same old, same old. HN! Come on, how myopic must you be to not see that a working democracy is a condition sine qua non of your dear curiosity. You see what's happening in Iran, right? Well, they don't! Put your glasses on, HN, you're not seeing shit.

> And it's flagged, of course. > Will somebody vouch for this? It's a false dichotomy and this mode of black/white thinking is everywhere online. Unless you agree 100% with every single atom and detail of >THING X Had a similar discussion in the thread for the hacker doxxing conservative dating sites: while I disagree with white supremacists I still think doxxing people online is wrong (for both sides). And for Grube…

Agreed; in general, doxxing people is wrong. In general, politics are polarizing and reactive, and are to be avoided on a mostly-technical discussion site. In general, Gruber is an Apple review guy. These rules-of-thumb are useful and proper, generally. But you know what comes next, right?

The exceptions.

I think we're seeing some extraordinary events irl that the HN community and moderators are dealing with organically. Exceptions are being made; eventually the rules of thumbs will return to prominence.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#54

Post by y0eswddl »

tastyface wrote: post #25

What I find even more horrifying than the murder is the response from people in power. Lying. Calling the victim a terrorist. Claiming she deserved it. Expressing unequivocal support for the killer. Threatening more of the same for the opposition. Posting fucking memes! Not even a hint of sympathy anywhere to be seen. These people are animals. They should be in chains in front of a tribunal, not running the country.…

ALL humans are animals.

And most animals typically act much less indiscriminately violent than we do.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#55

Post by [deleted] »

etothet wrote: post #35
tim333 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this will play well for them politically. A fair bit of what got Trump elected was saying they'd protect ordinary Americans from immigrant criminals. Now they have footage of a white middle class mum in an suv, pretty much their median voter, being shot dead by their thugs and saying don't believe you eyes and clear video evidence, she tried to run an officer over when she obviously didn't.

You may be correct (and I hope you are), but speaking anecdotely, I have several friends & acquaintances on the right who justify pretty much any actions taken by the admnistration (including this one). Many of the supporters of this administration are religious zealots who see left wing thinking and people as just about the most evil thing out there. To them, the end (fewer “radical” left wing thinkers) justifies th…

[deleted]

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#57

Post by metalman »

this is so hard for me, I have been in several situations where guns have been drawn, including by police(for no reason), and others where guns have been fired as intimidation, and "accidental" discharges and have always reacted instinctivly and yelled at and stood up to idiots and there guns, watching this video and the one where a civilian disarms one of the attackers on bondi beach, vividly shows the monsters and people who will stand up and fight or are just caught up in something they dont understand, but that the person in Miniapolis who filmed this, stood there and bore witness while this unfolded is something I could never have imagined, the ones at the top, orchestrating these public executions, should fear the implacable bravery of those who will stand firm far more than a reactionary like me. Also, another person has documented ICE blocking an MD from assisting the murder victim, who is 20' away dieing.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#58

Post by estimator7292 »

cmxch wrote: post #46
tombert wrote: post #9

It's almost like giving a nearly-completely-unregulated quasi-military force unlimited funding, more weapons than God, and no clear goals other than "deport more people" is actually a really bad idea. People voted for this. Oh but hey, we at least made sure to pretend to save money by firing and then rapidly rehiring a lot of the workforce.

If we give money to groups that aid and support the protection of illegal aliens, no sense in not outspending them.

You're suggesting a grassroots movement to outspend the US government, one of the wealthiest entities on the planet

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#59

Post by metadope »

cmxch wrote: post #46
tombert wrote: post #9

It's almost like giving a nearly-completely-unregulated quasi-military force unlimited funding, more weapons than God, and no clear goals other than "deport more people" is actually a really bad idea. People voted for this. Oh but hey, we at least made sure to pretend to save money by firing and then rapidly rehiring a lot of the workforce.

If we give money to groups that aid and support the protection of illegal aliens, no sense in not outspending them.

Here you appear to be using "illegal aliens" as a synonym for "immigrants".

Groups that aid and support immigrants are doing a service that benefits America and all Americans; we should give them money so they can continue to help.

Immigration is of benefit to most nations; we are no different. But if and when you call immigrants illegal aliens, you're removing an important distinction and distorting reality.

Have you ever seen an immigration application? Ever examined the regulations that legal immigrants must navigate?

Legal immigration is a quagmire, but some would rather turn away from the swamp rather than drain it; some would like to pretend that immigration is the same thing as invasion, to justify the lazy approach that groups everyone together in an alien blur.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#60

Post by duxup »

techblueberry wrote: post #4

Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.

Considering the behavior of ICE, it seems like they hired some folks just desperate to find legal cover to shoot someone. There are numerous videos of them casually drawing their weapons on protesters.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen...

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...

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