Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not debating that. I'm just wondering if anyone has seen vid from the lead-up so I can see for myself.
It doesn’t matter.
What doesn't? My desire? How can you say my desire does not matter?
Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
321–330 of 426 posts
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, you do not get to tone police the word "murder" from everyone rightfully outraged with an above-it-all appeal to "impartial" but narrow legal definitions. We all know the legal system has been thoroughly corrupted, and there is the good chance this murderer will not actually be criminally charged and convicted of any types of legally-defined murder. This does not matter - in the eyes of We The People this is fuck…
> will not actually be criminally charged and convicted of any types of legally-defined murder. Yes, that is my point. What you consider a corrupt legal system, I call one that tries to protect people who are accused of a crime until they are proven guilty. It’s not “guilty until proven innocent”…its the other way around. > This does not matter - in the eyes of We The People this is fucking Murder. And the emotion he…
And there it is....
'The mob at the Boston Massacre were the ones in the wrong, good luck with your ungovernable new country'.
Fuck that un-American bullshit. The Redcoats that murdered those people in Boston way back when is what led to a free America because the MURDERERS were in the wrong. Learn some fucking American history/civics.
You want to abuse civility/civilization/rule of law into protection for the government extra-judicially murdering Americans in the street. Nah, fuck that. We got it right in Boston. Your deferring to authoritarianism because 'rule of law' is bullshit and anti a free people/nation/government of/for the people.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> will not actually be criminally charged and convicted of any types of legally-defined murder. Yes, that is my point. What you consider a corrupt legal system, I call one that tries to protect people who are accused of a crime until they are proven guilty. It’s not “guilty until proven innocent”…its the other way around. > This does not matter - in the eyes of We The People this is fucking Murder. And the emotion he…
The general point is that there is a wider definition of "murder" than merely what the legal system has defined and proven. It's perfectly sensible to call someone a "murderer" before it has been diligently proven in a court of law. Especially when there are multiple videos of that person executing an American mother, and the restraint to not go after singled-out named people is already being exercised implicitly, as…
Here is the reality, The actions Trump is taking regarding immigration enforcement are definitely consistent with the platform he ran on. None of this should be a shock to anyone. It’s not like Trump was an “unknown quantity”. Trump was still elected despite every thing we knew about him, how he managed the country, and what he wanted to do. I did not vote for him (not ever). I suspect many folks here did not vote for him, but plenty of people did vote for him, more than enough to get him elected and for congress to stay GOP controlled.
Our political system worked exactly as designed, the person and party that America wanted is running the country. The checks and balances are still in place too. It’s just that those checks and balances are largely in agreement with Trump at this time. America wanted and deserves exactly what it has right now.
Our overall republic is also working as designed, our states via our elected representatives have made immigration a federal issue. If states want that control given back, then it needs to be taken back in the same way it was given—via Congress. That’s how this shit works. We know from history what happens when states decide to take a different approach. Frankly, that is uglier and more dangerous than what we have now.
The nice thing is, we also have a chance to upend congress a bit this year. If America decides to do that, good for it. If it doesn’t, then you know where its mood still is. The good thing is he is definitely gone in 2028. At that point America again will give us clues to where its mood is by who it chooses to elect into leadership.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You're more likely to get scolded here for accusing that person of being a shill/troll than to see them get removed for acting exactly like one.
That kind of neutral bias is selectively employed to protect right wing takes from getting attacked by more liberal ones.
Although, here's pg with a brief moment of insight:
https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/2009219891933630925
> hardcore Trump supporters are indistinguishable from bots.
That'd get him spanked on this forum if he didn't own it.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#325Obviously, the current US government-billionaire mafia openly treats the citizens as immigrants (so they let an immigration authority to act on regular people deep inside the country). They will continue to terrorise and suppress in order to protect their rich privileges. I cannot recall any such situation in a modern developed country.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#326The biggest issue with all this is that ICE agents are in fact NOT police officers. As a US citizen you DO NOT have to obey them in the same manner as a police officer and their rights to detain you are limited. Unless they were placing her under arrest she was free to leave and drive on. Most ICE agents lack the same training that your average state police officer would be forced to go through and thus are far more…
According to this NPR article, it currently is legal for ICE to detain you if you are visibly ethnic: A federal court agreed, ruling that agents can't rely on factors such as race, speaking Spanish, wearing workman-like clothes, and location [...] to meet the standard of "individualized suspicion." But in September, the Supreme Court paused that previous ruling, saying immigration agents can use those factors as reas…
Okay, this should be neither here nor there, but from the pictures of the Victim that I've seen, no one would assume she was an immigrant (even though immigrants are frequently Canadian/European).
Like, even under this awful terrible and completely unimaginable ruling (Which should not be the legal standard in the US), there is no way that ICE could be considered to have the power to detain this person.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lon Horiuchi was charged with sniping an innocent woman holding a baby but I'll admit he wasn't convicted. So it's totally possible the murderer gets locked up for a few years while facing trial and then released. Which would be at least a couple years sentence since murder trials take 1-2 years to prepare and you get basically no compensation for time spent imprisoned awaiting trial.
Again, “murder” is charge that requires conviction. People keep using it here when its not appropriate to do so. I realize they are caught up in the emotion and not viewing things pragmatically. I am trying to provide a window to let people see that this is probably not black and white. I am not claiming that this officer did not cause the death of this woman. I am suggesting that because of LEOs having qualified imm…
It is absolutely murder, and hair-splitting on definitions is famously the first line of defense of people who are 100% guilty and they know it.
Your claim about murder is bad and wrong on the same level as "I did not have sexual relations with 'that woman'." Stop language policing people and actually think about what has happened. This was an extrajudicial killing of a US Citizen by the US Government. That should scare anyone, but instead you're in all of the comments trying to split hairs about "how things would play out in a court of law." No one cares how things would play out in court, because no one trusts the US legal system to carry out justice. So it doesn't matter.
What matters is that this is murder and the US Justice system is about to start doing cartwheels to try and defend a system that is so clearly backwards and corrupt because the current POTUS administration has given up on "law and order" in favor of a grab for absolute power.
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
The general point is that there is a wider definition of "murder" than merely what the legal system has defined and proven. It's perfectly sensible to call someone a "murderer" before it has been diligently proven in a court of law. Especially when there are multiple videos of that person executing an American mother, and the restraint to not go after singled-out named people is already being exercised implicitly, as…
Here is the reality, The actions Trump is taking regarding immigration enforcement are definitely consistent with the platform he ran on. None of this should be a shock to anyone. It’s not like Trump was an “unknown quantity”. Trump was still elected despite every thing we knew about him, how he managed the country, and what he wanted to do. I did not vote for him (not ever). I suspect many folks here did not vote fo…
First, this has very little to do with any sort of mandate for immigration enforcement. Immigration is being used as a pretext to deploy revanchist terror squads that are attacking all of civil society, as we've seen with the murder of this American citizen mother. And yes, people should have seen this coming when they voted for him. But this is not what he openly campaigned on at all.
Second, winning an election does not imply a mandate to ignore the Constitution and act as a dictator. Nor does Congress and the Supreme Court abdicating their Constitutional duties in favor of enabling an autocrat running roughshod over our Constitutional rights with impunity mean that the Constitution is being followed "as designed".
But lastly, and this is really the only point I am asking you to agree with - if you think the only way we can put a firm stop to this is wait to Congressionally check the fascists in November, then surely you can agree that labeling this regime as unrepentant murderers of American mothers is a good way of building broad opposition from people who might otherwise think it doesn't concern them, yes?
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I don't think you're just describing it, you're making it fit your narrative. There is no way she was trying to ram that officer, everyone knows it. He had walked in front of the car as she was reversing - why? He could at any point have stepped to the side and just let her escape, and if she'd done something wrong, the normal thing happens, she gets arrested, prosecuted if guilty and sentenced accordingly.
Instead, he chose to draw his weapon and kill her.
What the fuck is wrong with people defending this?
Re: Minneapolis driver shot and killed by ICE
#330@dang I don’t know if this is a bug… but how is this not on the front pages? (I checked 2. 74 upvotes / 34 comments 2h old) This is the type of thing that I sort of rely on HN to inform me about. Then other articles are seemingly killed as dupe which I guess would make sense if the original was visible.
> This is the type of thing that I sort of rely on HN to inform me about. Umm... flagging issue aside, this story is currently at the top of CNN, NBC, ABC, BBC, and Google News, as I just checked. What part of information do we rely on HN regarding this story?
I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I don't follow any of CNN/NBC/ABC/BBC/Google News/etc. I have some RSS feeds and email newsletters, but they only cover science/tech/health stuff. I basically rely on HN as a filter so that I do catch a handful of non-tech things.