Could a company other than Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company manufacture the chips that Nvidia products are made of, and could that happen in America? The answer is yes to both. But if Nvidia attempted it today, it would be doomed. Jensen knows that sometimes it's more convenient to be Jen-Hsun.
Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
181–190 of 527 posts
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#182There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country. For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning?…
Service jobs are hard to export, it's just moving money around inside your country. Riveting is a job that produces goods that can be exported for incoming cash, elderly care isn't.
This makes next to no sense. Service jobs aren't "just moving money around inside your country" for the same reason that exporting goods isn't "just moving money around inside your planet".
Services sell time and skills directly, instead of in the form of a tangible good. That's it.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#183He is free to give back some of his $150bn anytime.
I do think that this is at the heart of the problem. The issue is not an overall lack of wealth, but how it is distributed. This is not going to change, no matter how many data centres or factories are built in the US. Ultimately, all the wealth will still end up in the hands of a select few. Not to mention that we are already exceeding a number of planetary boundaries, which endanger humans. The ever-growing demand…
I think he's talking litteraly about distirbuting wealth :)
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Forgot the whole crux of my point. Labour needs to be empowered globally, to minimize the benefits of offshoring.
Labour is still going to be cheaper in offshore countries simply because of purchasing power parity. Even good conditions and everything in country like India paying them around 10-30k$ is seriously really really good (source: I live there) and its english speaking and well integrated etc. I saw another comment which mentioned that just merely healthcare in america can cost around 10k$/year So Labour should be empowe…
I think it's hard to overstate how big of a deal "Labour needs to be empowered globally" is.
Think of it as two huge reservoirs of water, one of which is at a higher altitude. If you connect them with a pipe, they will inevitably tend to equalize - this is what is happening with globalization. It's good for the developing world but bad for the developed. The labor class not only needs to demand better working conditions, but also standards of living, environment regulations, housing, etc. etc. until equilibrium is reached. The owner class will be exploiting the difference until that happens.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#185the us is 16% of global manufacturing by value with 4% of the population, i dont know how this fact isn't brought up more. on a population weighted basis the us manufactures more by value than china. A bunch of people salivating for a world where the us was 52% of world gdp, not because it was great, but because the rest of the world was ash.
Whilst this is true, there is some distortion to that statement with measuring by value. If I produce a screw for the US military (a scenario where supply chains are highly regulated and thus may be unable to buy cheap from a foreign country) and sell it for $1, I have produced a dollar of manufacturing by value, but If I produce exactly the same product in China for $0.1, I've only made 10 cents by value, despite the fact I have made exactly the same product.
There is a reason why for instance ships and raw materials output is measured in tonnage, since that is the actual thing produced, the value is secondary to that. That is you would want to measure the actual amount of goods produced rather than what they sold for, obviously only amongst comparable categories.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#186Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…
One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other…
We almost do. Employers must provide insurance. If you’re unemployed you can probably get Medicaid. We have private entities handle the details instead of something that looks like the Post Office. There is nothing anyone in Congress can do which results in all 8 billion people on Earth having instant access to all conceivable treatment in any location the the US. Like socialized medicine, there is no meaningful price discovery mechanism in the US. Unlike socialized medicine, it’s a lot harder for political parties to conduct pogroms by rationing resources and euthanizing demographics that don’t vote the way they like.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nonsense, it's just cheaper to pay someone without any rights 50c/h then to automate it If that industry was still in the area, they'd be automating the shit outta it. It's just not worth it right now considering there are always literal wage slaves in some place they can ship in for their sweatshops Also, even locally produced premium clothing uses materials sourced from literal slave labour. There is no consumer de…
> If that industry was still in the area, they'd be automating the shit outta it. ... and the jobs that were provided go poof again.
Not all of them, even automated industry is generally good at the macro level
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive The costs need to be fixed, first. Moving to the government/taxes paying for it doesn't fix that.
> Moving to the government/taxes paying for it doesn't fix that. It kinda does, bigger players have more bargaining power. There is no bigger player than the government in a universal healthcare system. Furthermore, a significant cost in healthcare is all of the bureaucracy around billing. Much of that goes away with single payer.
It would be very tough to reduce pay for doctors and other staff. The United States medical industry is one of the highest paying in the world.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors. Unless we want to return to mercantilism a global empowerment of organized labour globally is the only real way to fix this.
> Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors This is is a fallacious argument. Most or even all of those places couldn't have hoped to out-compete the domestic companies without the traitorous companies shipping complete factories to them. The reason the Soviets didn't outcompete us wasn't down to just incentive structures (thou…
You might disagree, but that does not make it fallacious.
Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring
#190He is not causally connecting "AI" with industry and manufacturing here. Building data centers isn't manufacturing. He says in this piece that energy production needs to come first, and manufacturing later and not the other way around. Is he saying that AI will require building out energy production and the increased energy production will be used for... manufacturing? But it'll be used for the data centers. What, ex…
I don't know about Jensen specifically, and I can't remember the guy at the moment, but there have been a few tipped hands including one where the guy on national TV said something about "Americans should be gluing the iPhones together in the factory, not Chinese" and it really made a lot of this stuff click for me: they want to provide low-paying American jobs in American factories. That's probably not the whole vis…
You have one of 3 choices here:
1. Low paid American workers glue iphones together in sweatshops
2. Low paid Chinese workers glue iphones together in sweatshops
3. Well paid American workers glue iphones together in sweatshops, and to make this possible we have a massive tariffs regime that makes consumer goods massively more expensive and massively increases the price of all manufactured goods.
Pick your poison. They call economics the "dismal science" for a reason.