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Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

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Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#81

Post by efitz »

okaram wrote: post #76
potato3732842 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. Was he crazy or was he made to look that way as an excuse to dismiss his views? Sitting here in the 2020s knowing what we know now about "how it all works" it sure does cast a lot of doubt upon the past.

Porque no los dos? He was a super-rich guy, who had had too many people telling him he was a genius for way too long (reminds you of anybody?), and so was way too sure of himself. A bunch of his ideas were crazy, which doesn't mean others weren't trying to dismiss his views.

> A bunch of his ideas were crazy

Which ones?

btw young idealistic me voted for Perot in 1992

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#82

Post by logicchains »

khuey wrote: post #61

I used to agree with this (at least the headline), but then I lived through the Biden administration. Fundamentally Americans want to consume more services and especially goods than the people living in America produce. The only ways to square that circle are 1. To get more people. But by 2024 prime age labor force participation was at essentially record numbers[0] so there aren't more people available domestically,…

>3. To force people to consume less (i.e. inflation). Voters hate this.

Inflation from immigration/offshoring restrictions is not evenly distributed. It's essentially a purchasing power transfer from everyone else to low-skilled workers (who no longer face competition from cheaper overseas labor, so have more bargaining power and hence can demand higher wages from society).

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#83

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

ecshafer wrote: post #30
hackthemack wrote: post #12

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…

One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other…

The irony of the situation when you realize that you can probably get healthcare yourself in India (not sure about other countries) but for even a very good healthcare program to be around 25$ per month

And that 10k$/year can be considered middle class / heck I can even argue just slightly above middle class in India

And you can actually enjoy food and a lot of things really cheap as well

Usually the only problem becomes if something is inherently expensive (think college or land) which is where PPP does hurt but in everyday life, I think India's decent to live in.

Now I want to ask you but even if someone spends around ~$10k+ a year, even then I have heard people describe american healthcare subpar. Like why? Is it just corruption at healthcare level and lobbying efforts?

Is there truly nothing that the average american can't do about to make things better for the healthcare situation. To me its feeling like america's moving even backwards right now from cutting medicaid putting even more strain on the amount and still even on the average person themselves as well.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#85

Post by andrewmcwatters »

runako wrote: post #36

There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country. For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning?…

What’s your point? Say everything you just said again, but with software engineering and Indians, instead of manufacturing and the Chinese, or textiles and Vietnam and Pakistan.

There’s no reason American cars need to exist either, they basically all perform worse dollar-for-dollar, feature-for-feature, than foreign cars.

In fact, let’s offshore everything. There’s no reason not to use Filipinos for McDonald’s and In-n-Out drive-thru speakers.

Let’s all adopt Chinese tang ping. Lay down and die. Treat every effort of labor as replaceable and void of respect.

If China and India wanted to wage effortless war with the US all it would have to do is stop exporting goods and labor to us.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#86

Post by NoSalt »

hackthemack wrote: post #12

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…

I voted for Ross. Sad he didn't win.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#87

Post by amanaplanacanal »

softwaredoug wrote: post #71
newyankee wrote: post #5

Everyone wants to give advice, no one wants to take a lead and execute anything concrete. All the talk of energy and no mention of solar, wind, batteries

Politics is the art of the possible. If Trump wants to focus on Nuclear, then let’s take the opportunity to improve nuclear.

This only works if Trump is president for life. He only has three years left in office, and you can't build nuclear that fast.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#88

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

tokai wrote: post #29
hackthemack wrote: post #12

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for yo…

Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors. Unless we want to return to mercantilism a global empowerment of organized labour globally is the only real way to fix this.

> Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors

This is is a fallacious argument. Most or even all of those places couldn't have hoped to out-compete the domestic companies without the traitorous companies shipping complete factories to them. The reason the Soviets didn't outcompete us wasn't down to just incentive structures (though that was part of it), quite alot of their failure was down to being locked out of the market on machine tools.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#90

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

freedomben wrote: post #23
moogly wrote: post #13

He is not causally connecting "AI" with industry and manufacturing here. Building data centers isn't manufacturing. He says in this piece that energy production needs to come first, and manufacturing later and not the other way around. Is he saying that AI will require building out energy production and the increased energy production will be used for... manufacturing? But it'll be used for the data centers. What, ex…

I don't know about Jensen specifically, and I can't remember the guy at the moment, but there have been a few tipped hands including one where the guy on national TV said something about "Americans should be gluing the iPhones together in the factory, not Chinese" and it really made a lot of this stuff click for me: they want to provide low-paying American jobs in American factories. That's probably not the whole vis…

>and it really made a lot of this stuff click for me: they want to provide low-paying American jobs in American factories.

This isn't a fair characterization. The people on reddit who complain that the coffee place is only scheduling them for 10 hours a week and that people are being stingy with the tips might actually prefer the factory job with a regular 40 hours, occasionally mandatory overtime, and $5/hr more than what Starbucks offers. If you disagree, then I suspect that there's no universe possible where you're satisfied without the population of the United States being cut by three quarters.

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