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It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

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Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#441

Post by danans »

flumpcakes wrote: post #65

It seems like Apple's hardware design is universally loved with much acclaim, why is their software getting progressively worse? It's not Microsoft-add-all-the-bloatware-and-adverts-we-can worse, but it's 20-year-old-operating-systems-were-better-designed worse. We're getting to a point where I think Linux windowing systems like KDE are better designed. And it seems that all they had to do was not change much over th…

> It seems like Apple's hardware design is universally loved with much acclaim, why is their software getting progressively worse?

It's not so different from the rationale for many consumer electronics products: novelty for marketing's sake rather than functionality. Similarly, notice the ridiculous trend of removing most physical buttons from car dashboards, started by Tesla and mindlessly aped by the other carmakers.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#442

Post by LoganDark »

bargainbin wrote: post #377
torben-friis wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main gripe with Liquid Glass is how distracting it is. Many top bars have become a group of bubbles over the content, which we’ve been conditioned to see as floating notifications for years. Things shine and move when they don’t require attention, just because. The end result is that my OS feels like a browser without ad blocker. As much as people hated flat design, at least it didn’t grab your attention with tack…

My main gripe is that the visual shenanigans alone were enough of a change, why rearrange the buttons?! In the early iOS beta, the new tab button was at the top of Safari, as far away from your thumbs as it could be. Genuinely believe Apple’s design team are rudderless or have unintentionally been forced to produce something to justify someone’s career, because this whole thing is disastrous.

> In the early iOS beta, the new tab button was at the top of Safari, as far away from your thumbs as it could be.

Can't you swipe past the end on the tab bar (along the bottom by default) to create a new tab?

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#443

Post by moogly »

throwaway270925 wrote: post #432
moogly wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the site owner clearly despises their prospective readers. I found it more prudent to close the tab and flag the submission.

Flagging a submission just because they added a little whimsy for the holidays to their personal website which you dont like? What a sad, sorry, hate-filled way to go through life.

"Hate"? For flagging a UX-hostile submission. Who is overreacting here?

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#444

Post by iainmerrick »

mxfh wrote: post #145
vehemenz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author addresses this. Humans are the same in 2026 as 1992. Besides, that interface designers or even the average computer user understands more than in 1992 is highly implausible on its face.

Humans are definitely not the same as in 1992 when it comes to their everyday knowledge of computer interactions. And even if human cognition itself were unchanged, our understanding of HCI has evolved significantly since then, well beyond what merely “feels right.” Most UX researchers today can back up their claims with empirical data. The article goes on at great length about consistency, yet then insists that text…

Most UX researchers today can back up their claims with empirical data.

HCI work in 1992 was very heavily based on user research, famously so at Apple. They definitely had the data.

I find myself questioning that today (like, have these horrible Tahoe icons really been tested properly?) although maybe unfairly, as I'm not an HCI expert. It does feel like there are more bad UIs around today, but that doesn't necessarily mean techniques have regressed. Computers just do a hell of a lot more stuff these days, so maybe it's just impossible to avoid additional complexity.

One thing that has definitely changed is the use of automated A/B testing -- is that the "empirical data" you're thinking of? I do wonder if that mostly provides short-term gains while gradually messing up the overall coherency of the UI.

Also, micro-optimizing via A/B testing can lead to frequent UI churn, which is something that I and many others find very annoying and confusing.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#445

Post by SkyPuncher »

ido wrote: post #142
SkyPuncher wrote: post #133

I tend to disagree with the author on this. Reading actual words takes time (and, for me, mental energy). I have to look at each character, say the word in my head, then visualize what action that word means. Where as icons have a lot more built in meaning (but lack specificity). I tend to use them as a _local_ fuzzy filter (unless it's a common, well known icon like share) then read the words to understand exactly w…

> Reading actual words takes time (and, for me, mental energy). I have to look at each character, say the word in my head, then visualize what action that word means. It might sound flippant but I'm asking in good faith: do you have a reading disability (like dyslexia)? I (and I think this is generally the case) don't consciously read words character by character or say them in my head, it feels more like my brain pa…

I don’t believe I have dyslexia, but I’m an incredibly slow reader. By contrast, I’m an extremely good skimmer - but in a are much easier for me than text.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#446

Post by E39M5S62 »

ramon156 wrote: post #129
robinhood wrote: post #38

I never disliked an OS as much as I dislike what Apple is doing with MacOS (and iOS by extension). I've been with MacOS for 20 years, but I've switched at home to Linux full time 2 years ago and I don't regret it. At work I'm forced to be on MacOS. It's concerning how Apple doesn't care anymore about user needs, usability, design and consistency. Where it was the best OS in the past for me, it's not anymore. Other OS…

what distro are you running at home? ive had the most success with fedora x11 / xwayland but lately wayland has been pretty solid

XWayland runs on top of Wayland, and is a way for X11-only applications to still work. It does not run inside a native X11 session.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#447

Post by jollyllama »

paulcole wrote: post #388
jollyllama wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would UX be getting worse across the board if there is greater understanding now?

Did you mean to reply to me? The person I replied to said, "that interface designers or even the average computer user understands more than in 1992 is highly implausible on its face" Think of computer users at the ages of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, and 80 in 1992. For each group, estimate their computer knowledge when they sat down at a computer in 1992. Now do the same exercise for the year 2026. How is it highly…

> Did you mean to reply to me?

I think so.

> The person I replied to said, "that interface designers or even the average computer user understands more than in 1992 is highly implausible on its face"

Yes, I agree with this person.

>How is it highly implausible on its face that the average computer user in 2026 understands less than the average computer user in 1992?

I don't think it is. Particularly with the average user, the bar of understanding is lower now.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#449

Post by hbn »

master_crab wrote: post #11

Is there a reason Apple can’t focus on system improvements instead of constantly tweaking with their UI so thoroughly every couple years? I don’t disagree the OS UI needs to be revamped periodically, but it seems they do it too often.

> constantly tweaking with their UI so thoroughly every couple years

Between any of the big 3 companies putting out major OSes (Apple, Microsoft, Google), Apple is the best for sticking to tried and true designs. It's certainly gotten worse the past couple of years (like the Photos app redesign they immediately changed again in iOS 26) and I hope with their new design lead he can pull things back to somewhere sensible, but compared to Android or Windows it's not even close. I used Android for the better part of a decade and every year they'd completely redesign the notification shade, the settings app, they'd switch the SMS app out for Hangouts, then put you back on Messages, then rename it, then change the logo/branding, then redesign it again, etc. Everything was endless changes for no reason, felt like a constant beta.

If you look at the basic iPhone apps - Messages, Settings, Notes - prior to Liquid Glass it's been pretty much exactly as it was when Jobs showed it off at the iPhone reveal 19 years ago.

Re: It's hard to justify Tahoe icons

#450

Post by Rebuff5007 »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #247

It's hard to justify Liquid Glass in general. The wastefulness of flat design (in terms of space) married with the visual excess of skeuomorphism, but without even providing any affordances (does the sidebar being raised give you any new information on how to use a sidebar? No). If you're a designer at a top 10 S&P 500 company making 6 figures, you owe it to yourself to have some love for your craft. If a PM tells yo…

I generally don't place "conspiratorial" motivations to explain the decisions of tech companies, but I can't help but think this is a move from apple to keep their ludicrously powerful M-chips busy with mundane UI because the average user will never need to otherwise upgrade past an M1.
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