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Using AI generated images to get refunds

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Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#41

Post by estearum »

avereveard wrote: post #21
websiteapi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scamming to get refunds has always been a thing.

and that say nothing whether this is actually happening or not, what's your point?

It's funny how every few months there's a new malicious usecase that AI proponents cast unreasonable amounts of doubt onto, then the problem becomes widely recognized, and AI proponents just move onto the next bastion of "ya but is this obvious malicious use case of my favored technology REALLY happening?"

Gigantic bot farms taking over social media

Non-consensual sexual imagery generation (including of children)

LLM-induced psychosis and violence

Job and college application plagiarism/fraud (??)

News publications churning out slop

Scams of the elderly

So don't worry: in a few months we can come back to this thread and return fraud will be recognized to have been supercharged by generative AI. But then we can have the same conversation about like insurance fraud or some other malicious use case that there's obvious latent demand for, and new capability for AI models to satisfy that latent demand at far lower complexity and cost than ever before.

Then we can question whether basic mechanics of supply and demand don't apply to malicious use cases of favored technology for some reason.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#42

Post by avereveard »

ACCount37 wrote: post #40
avereveard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that say nothing whether this is actually happening or not, what's your point?

That "whether this is actually happening or not" is not even a question worth asking. No shit it's happening. Now, on what scale, and should we care?

is it happening literally is the most important question. people are clamoring for regulations and voiding consumer protections, over something nobody seem to find a independently verifiable source.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#43

Post by avereveard »

estearum wrote: post #41
avereveard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that say nothing whether this is actually happening or not, what's your point?

It's funny how every few months there's a new malicious usecase that AI proponents cast unreasonable amounts of doubt onto, then the problem becomes widely recognized, and AI proponents just move onto the next bastion of "ya but is this obvious malicious use case of my favored technology REALLY happening?" Gigantic bot farms taking over social media Non-consensual sexual imagery generation (including of children) LLM…

well yes that's how should we navigate societal change, out of actual threats and not what ifs. what ifs gave us some nice piece of work legislation before like DMCA, so yeah I'm going to be overly cautious about anything that is emotionally charged instead of data driven.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#44

Post by fosco »

isoprophlex wrote: post #5

Maybe the extreme scalability of AI bullshitting will offset the extreme scalability of running large-scale direct-to-consumer oligopolies, and we see some return to local shopping, with all the positive effects on local communities... one can hope

Local stores bullshit too, I was at a well known American ‘sporting goods’ store and got an exercise ball of 75cm size (it states on box), it is fully pumped and smaller than a 55cm ball that I have. When purchasing online I’ve had better luck

Caveat emptor

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#46

Post by lm28469 »

atonse wrote: post #37

Isn’t this easy to fix over time? Like ok, you issue one refund. But if Amazon sees the same users requesting too many refunds then it is a red flag?

I've been rotating a few amazon accounts for a decade to be in almost continuous free prime, they don't give a shit yet

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#47

Post by intended »

GenAI really is underscoring how much of society is about veracity.

I’d say the fears and defenses we had in place for speech online, are having their foundations ripped out from under them.

Most of the concern used to be about government control, and that more speech would be the way to democratize and expand our agency over our lives.

However now, especially with generative AI and LLMs, the primary vector to control the market place of ideas is to overwhelm the market.

Reduce the cost to make content, sandblast our receptors, create too many things to spend our collective energy on verifying, and the outcomes are the same as controlling what is thought and discussed.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#48

Post by webstrand »

stanac wrote: post #35
frenzcan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like such a tricky problem. There was a no-ai camera posted here recently which verified the photos were genuinely taken on the device. It was pointed out someone could photograph an ai image via the camera to produce a verified image. Maybe it needs to be similar to SSL certificates where trusted authorities can verify and revoke verification for digital assets.

I was thinking the same thing. Apple and Google can start (as tech companies) to add signatures to images. As long as private key doesn't leak we are good. And each manufacturer can have different cert issued by higher authority e.g. Google, so it can be revoked when it leaks. They could include digital camera manufacturers (sony, nicon, canon, ...) and define a standard. Signature can be a meta tag based on hash of…

You can still just manipulate the official hardware to produce the image you desire, i.e. record a video that's projected onto a wall. And it'd be fairly easy to do with existing technology too.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#49

Post by estearum »

avereveard wrote: post #43
estearum wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how every few months there's a new malicious usecase that AI proponents cast unreasonable amounts of doubt onto, then the problem becomes widely recognized, and AI proponents just move onto the next bastion of "ya but is this obvious malicious use case of my favored technology REALLY happening?" Gigantic bot farms taking over social media Non-consensual sexual imagery generation (including of children) LLM…

well yes that's how should we navigate societal change, out of actual threats and not what ifs. what ifs gave us some nice piece of work legislation before like DMCA, so yeah I'm going to be overly cautious about anything that is emotionally charged instead of data driven.

Who is talking about legislation?

Are you adjusting your perception of the problem based on fear of a possible solution?

Anyway, our society has fuck tons of protections against "what ifs" that are extremely good, actually. We haven't needed a real large scale anthrax attack to understand that we should regulate anthrax as if it's capable of producing a large scale attack, correct?

You'll need a better model than just asserting your prior conclusions by classifying problems into "actual threats" and "what ifs."

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#50

Post by thunky »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #26
thunky wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rendering homework ineffective Homework isn't any more ineffective imo. The way we educate and grade is. Imagine if people went to school to learn something rather than to "level up". And you earned a job based on what you know, or what you can do, rather than what degree you banked. Then maybe you would want to do the homework. If gen AI helps us flip the current system on it's head that would be a good thing.

> And you earned a job based on what you know, or what you can do, rather than what degree you banked As I see it, companies will want some sort of artifact that tells them that the person has some basic knowledge in their field of study, which would make us come back to the same system that many detest. Otherwise we'll just end up with Samsung Korea's version of the entrance test[1] which is like the SAT but for get…

> As I see it, companies will want some sort of artifact that tells them that the person has some basic knowledge in their field of study

Sure, but unfortunately a degree doesn't really do that today. When you interview someone, do you care at all about their degree or grades? Does it give you confidence they know something? I don't think so.

Which is my main point, that this isn't a new problem.

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