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Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

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Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#21

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

ordu wrote: post #12

> We love you FakeFoster, but GenZ is not ready for you. Don't tell me about GenZ. I had oral exams in calculus as undergrad, and our professor was intimidating. I barely passed each time when I got him as examiner, though I did reasonably well when dealing with his assistant. I could normally keep my emotions in check, but not with my professor. Though, maybe in that case the trigger was not just the tone of profess…

In Italy, every exam has an oral component, from elementary school all the way to university. I perform horribly under such condition, my mind goes blank entirely.

I wish that wasn't a thing.

Interviews are similar, but different: I'm presenting myself.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#22

Post by ted_dunning »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #8

...if I was a student, I just fundamentally don't think I'd want to be tested by an AI. I understand the author's reasoning, but it just doesn't feel respectful for something that is so high-stakes for the student. Wouldn't a written exam--or even a digital one, taken in class on school-provided machines--be almost as good? As long as it's not a hundred person class or something, you can also have an oral component t…

A written exam is problematic if you want the students to demonstrate mastery of the the content of their own project. It's also problematic if the course is essentially about using tools well. Bringing those tools into the exam without letting in LLMs is very hard.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#23

Post by Wowfunhappy »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #15
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #8

...if I was a student, I just fundamentally don't think I'd want to be tested by an AI. I understand the author's reasoning, but it just doesn't feel respectful for something that is so high-stakes for the student. Wouldn't a written exam--or even a digital one, taken in class on school-provided machines--be almost as good? As long as it's not a hundred person class or something, you can also have an oral component t…

If I was a professor, I don't think I'd want students submitting AI generated work. Yet, here we are. Students had and still have the option to collectively choose not to use AI to cheat. We can go back to written work at any time. And yet they continue to use it. Curious.

> Students had and still have the option to collectively choose not to use AI to cheat.

Individuals can't "collectively" choose anything.

This test is given to the entire class, including people who never touched AI.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#25

Post by Arodex »

Twirrim wrote: post #14

So what's next? Students using AIs with text-to-speech to orally respond to the "oral" exam questions from an AI? Where do we go from there? At some point soon I think this is going to have to come firmly back to real people.

Just a teleprompter is already enough to cheat at these, even filmed. With a two-way mirror correctly placed, you can look directly into the camera and look perfectly normal while reading.

Next steps are bone conduction microphones, smart glasses, earrings...

And the weeding out of anyone both honest and with social anxiety.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#26

Post by anonymous908213 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #15
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #8

...if I was a student, I just fundamentally don't think I'd want to be tested by an AI. I understand the author's reasoning, but it just doesn't feel respectful for something that is so high-stakes for the student. Wouldn't a written exam--or even a digital one, taken in class on school-provided machines--be almost as good? As long as it's not a hundred person class or something, you can also have an oral component t…

If I was a professor, I don't think I'd want students submitting AI generated work. Yet, here we are. Students had and still have the option to collectively choose not to use AI to cheat. We can go back to written work at any time. And yet they continue to use it. Curious.

Ah yes, collective punishment. Exactly what we should be endeavouring for our professors to do: see the student as an enemy to be disciplined, not a mind to be nurtured.

I know we've had historical record of people saying this for 2000 years and counting, but I suspect the future is well and truly bleak. Not because of the next generation of students, but because of the current generation of educators unable to successfully adapt to new challenges in a way that is actually beneficial to the student that it is supposed to be their duty to teach.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#28

Post by Traubenfuchs »

Arodex wrote: post #25
Twirrim wrote: post #14

So what's next? Students using AIs with text-to-speech to orally respond to the "oral" exam questions from an AI? Where do we go from there? At some point soon I think this is going to have to come firmly back to real people.

Just a teleprompter is already enough to cheat at these, even filmed. With a two-way mirror correctly placed, you can look directly into the camera and look perfectly normal while reading. Next steps are bone conduction microphones, smart glasses, earrings... And the weeding out of anyone both honest and with social anxiety.

My cohort was actively working with invisible realy-inside ear speakers.

Re: Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams

#29

Post by eaglefield »

At the price per student it probably makes sense to run some voluntary trial exams during the semester. This would give students a chance to get acquainted to the format, help them check their understanding and if the voice is very intimidating allow them to get used to that as well.

As an aside, I'm surprised oral exams aren't possible at 36 students. I feel like I've taken plenty of courses with more participants and oral exams. But the break even point is probably very different from country to country.

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