Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

blogs.hbr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 221 posts

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#61

Post by johnthedebs »

KirinDave wrote: post #51
Dove wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I thought he explained it pretty well: during meditation, you practice resisting urges. I'll admit that falls rather short of a doubleblindrandomlyassignedcontrolgrouplargesamplesizepeerreviewed study, but it does seem to be common sense that practicing something would make you better at it.

"during meditation, you practice resisting urges." Saying this does not make it true thought. Is that actually what people do during meditation? The only experience I have with meditation is sitting in seiza position after 2 hours of Ki Aikido, slowly feeling my muscles cramp, listening to someone hit a drum periodically, and not feeling anything good at all. Eventually I just learned to devote that time to reviewing…

I think when most people say 'meditation' what they mean is 'mindfulness meditation' (and that seems to be the case here). During mindfulness meditation, yes, resisting urges is part of what you're supposed to do.

The basic process goes something like:

1) Sit down in a comfortable position that you can stay in without moving.

2) Take deep breaths through your nose and focus your attention on the sensation of air moving over your nasal passages and into/out of your lungs.

3) When other thoughts come into your head or you find yourself thinking about anything other than your breathing, gently direct your attention back to your breathing.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#62

Post by KirinDave »

roqetman wrote: post #59
KirinDave wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to actually see some evidence that Meditation helps people sustain that state of mind. Because I hear people trot it out a lot but I've never seen it backed up by hard data. I think meditation may have benefits, but the idea that it helps you "build up willpower" has always been one I thought we could actually measure, and yet I've never seen a good study of it.

I used to also wait for all the data before I tried things like this. Then due to "reasons" I actually started meditation, daily, for just 10 minutes. I've now been doing it for 3 years and I have no data to give you, but the effects on me are subtle yet profound. If you can spare 10 minutes a day you still won't have any data, but you'll have an answer.

I am here to tell you the placebo effect is nearly impossible to spot from the inside out. Your brain is just not wired to pierce the veil of selection bias without a lot of effort.

You are saying, "Doing X made me feel good." But I am saying that nearly anything in that X spot might do the same. It's just the way the human mind works.

In testing out Piracetam on myself I've been especially aware of this, because even though I _know_ it can happen I still perceive effects that my testing strategy eliminates as just flights of fancy and imagination.

If meditation really is an amazing wonder practice you claim it is then it should hold up to scrutiny no problem. You can keep doing it, and I might even try it. That doesn't mean we should just pretend all the things this article are saying are true.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#63

Post by agumonkey »

webwanderings wrote: post #2

The misconception about meditation is that it requires one to give up everything and sit silently. This is not true in its entirety as it depends on how one interprets the word "meditation". The meditation does not necessarily require you to give up one thing for the sake of another. The goal of the meditation is to "be in awareness" and you can achieve this same goal by being alert and aware with any activity your f…

I play a game that I call MIKADO where I do everything in the smoothest way trying to generate the smallest amount of sound (or any kind of wave). It comes from a blend of the child game, taichi, and drumming (drumming ask for fine perception of balance shifts and acceleration) and forces me to focus on everything at everytime. From the object of action, its surroundings, myself and my surrounding. Sound seems quite exponential in nature, to avoid noises you really need to be continuously slow, at any sudden movement you'll have a hint, unless you know a path were you can accelerate freely. I find it very relaxing, body and mind. The unawareness of accumulation of changes/accelerations are often the cause of anger, tireness, physical effort. By going smooth and slow, not slow actually, just at your own pace, things appear to cost far less and to give far more.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#64

Post by nollidge »

KirinDave wrote: post #51
Dove wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I thought he explained it pretty well: during meditation, you practice resisting urges. I'll admit that falls rather short of a doubleblindrandomlyassignedcontrolgrouplargesamplesizepeerreviewed study, but it does seem to be common sense that practicing something would make you better at it.

"during meditation, you practice resisting urges." Saying this does not make it true thought. Is that actually what people do during meditation? The only experience I have with meditation is sitting in seiza position after 2 hours of Ki Aikido, slowly feeling my muscles cramp, listening to someone hit a drum periodically, and not feeling anything good at all. Eventually I just learned to devote that time to reviewing…

I think everyone's forgetting that there's a thousand different activities that people call "meditation". Vipassana meditation seems to be what the original article and most of the responses are referring to.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#65

Post by thirdtruck »

tylee78 wrote: post #50

Happens to me all the time. I am working on a piece of code in the afternoon, and can't move forward or looking to identify a bug or optimizing some algorithm - wasting hours. After a meditation session I walk back to the computer screen, take a seat, and my hand clicks around the tabs, my fingers scroll around, my eye catches one obscure line of code which is EXACTLY where the problem sits. I had this happen so many…

I can second this. I can't begin to count the number of times that spending five minutes walking and with my mind on anything but a given problem has lead to the recognition of a major time-saving change in plans.

Think of it as pulling off of the highway for a minute to check your map instead of trying to unfold it in front of your steering wheel.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#66

Post by KirinDave »

eof wrote: post #57
KirinDave wrote: post #8

Wait. Wait wait wait. > Research shows that an ability to resist urges will improve your relationships, increase your dependability, and raise your performance... Great. Yes. Impulse control is key. Delayed gratification is part of how we define higher intelligence. Meditation has what do with this, exactly? > How [does meditation help]? By increasing your capacity to resist distracting urges. This entire article is…

Article is not wrong about this. It is hard to measure what meditation is doing on a subjective level, which is very specific and easy to talk about amongst people who have spent even an hour meditating. The key here, which for you might be a leap of faith, is that when one tries to simply focus on their breath (or the dishes), completely without our permission thoughts continue to pop into our head. The 'natural' th…

> Anyone who has spent say, >3 hours of their life meditating will recognize it as a fact that meditation strengthens your will.

Do you realize how unsupportable this line of thought is? Do I even need to go into this?

How do you know meditation does not actually make this worse? If "willpower" is finite and predicated on physical endurance (as studies suggest), then perhaps sitting here trying to hold your mind "empty" is actually making you less capable of carrying on with the rest of your day!

Why wouldn't 8 hours of sleep, famously known for its ability to inspire ideas, be even more effective?

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#67

Post by bennesvig »

KirinDave wrote: post #53
bennesvig wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That analogy doesn't work. Meditations influence is covered in depth in The Willpower Instinct, but here's a short summary. ""Meditation requires you to tap all the self-regulation systems in your brain as well as the self-monitoring mechanism," says Kelly McGonigal, PhD, a health psychologist at Stanford University and author of the forthcoming The Willpower Instinct. Every time you meditate, you use two important p…

Does the Willpower Instinct contain any sort of actual empirical analysis of the subject? Or is it just someone with a PhD saying something? Because medical professionals can believe in magic and bullshit just as easily as anyone else.

Yes. It mentions actual studies and evidence.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/01/24/brain-structure-chan...

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#68

Post by KirinDave »

codegeek wrote: post #58
KirinDave wrote: post #8

Wait. Wait wait wait. > Research shows that an ability to resist urges will improve your relationships, increase your dependability, and raise your performance... Great. Yes. Impulse control is key. Delayed gratification is part of how we define higher intelligence. Meditation has what do with this, exactly? > How [does meditation help]? By increasing your capacity to resist distracting urges. This entire article is…

"Meditation has what do with this, exactly?" I think you are taking an extreme position on this issue. Meditation may not have everything to do with this but it does play a significant part. In my experience, meditation helps you analyze, hold and channel your thought process better. If your thought process is better, you have better control over your impulses.

It's "extreme" to ask for evidence on something testable now. :(

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#69

Post by KirinDave »

johnthedebs wrote: post #61
KirinDave wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"during meditation, you practice resisting urges." Saying this does not make it true thought. Is that actually what people do during meditation? The only experience I have with meditation is sitting in seiza position after 2 hours of Ki Aikido, slowly feeling my muscles cramp, listening to someone hit a drum periodically, and not feeling anything good at all. Eventually I just learned to devote that time to reviewing…

I think when most people say 'meditation' what they mean is 'mindfulness meditation' (and that seems to be the case here). During mindfulness meditation, yes, resisting urges is part of what you're supposed to do. The basic process goes something like: 1) Sit down in a comfortable position that you can stay in without moving. 2) Take deep breaths through your nose and focus your attention on the sensation of air movi…

Why is "breathing" more effective than, say, "cats"?
Post reply on HN