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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

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Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#311

Post by leptons »

swiftcoder wrote: post #157
leptons wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> people will figure that out and adapt for themselves >No they won't. People on HN will. Not the average person. Yes they will, Apple has made it very easy to see. To check iOS app power usage, go to Settings > Battery, where you'll see a breakdown of battery consumption by app for the last 24 hours or 10 days, showing usage time and background activity, allowing you to identify power-hungry apps and manage setting…

> So yeah, it's easy to see which app is taking the most power, and users can do this easily, unless you think Apple's UX is so bad that users won't know how to read it? It's easy to see, but seeing doesn't mean the user will do anything about it. I guarantee that for the average user, their list goes something like Instagram/TikTok/FaceBook/Twitter, and they haven't uninstalled any of those yet due to battery drain.…

So what? Apps use resources, that isn't really an epiphany. Some apps use more than others, and that isn't rocket science. If a stupid user's battery is getting drained faster than they'd like, maybe someone will clue them in. Maybe not. Maybe they'll just buy a battery bank or something to keep their phone powered up longer. I really don't care, but locking out other browser engines from a platform isn't really the excuse you think it is. Apple is anti-competitive, plain and simple, and there's no getting around that.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/media/1344546/dl?inline

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#312

Post by leptons »

otterley wrote: post #260
concinds wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "vetting" is irrelevant because the other engines will continue to not exist. By design. I am currently forced to use a less secure browser due to Apple's restrictions, which invalidates your original claim. Your skillful dodging of that point is why it's so frustrating to have any conversation about Apple. There really are cult-like aspects.

What “less secure” browser are you “forced” to use? And why?

You seem to need a bigger context window, and a memory. The less secure browser is Safari.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#313

Post by brokencode »

MBCook wrote: post #305
brokencode wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also because they know what happened to Microsoft when they did that with IE.

Microsoft didn’t control the number one search engine, the number one email client, the number one video site, probably the number one online office suite, the number one smartphone platform… It was possible to rip people away from Microsoft. That may not be something we can do this time with Chrome. Try telling someone that moving off of Chrome may mean moving off of every single Google property because Chrome is th…

Then it’d be time for round two of antitrust, and I doubt the judge and regulators would feel so understanding about Google keeping Chrome if that is the landscape.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#314

Post by zmmmmm »

MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

so you support a hegemony because you are opposed to hegemonies?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#315

Post by bangaladore »

dagmx wrote: post #211
arcanemachiner wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. It's just a coincidence that they're placing onerous restrictions on competi- I mean alternative browser engines. Restrictions which, of course, they're not obliged to follow themselves. I am sure that Apple will make no other efforts to impede others from unwalling the garden. That would be completely ridiculous, and frankly, un-Apple-esque.

Which of the restrictions do you feel they don’t abide by? It looks like they meet all their own restrictions

> Use memory-safe programming languages, or features that improve memory safety within other languages, within the alternative web browser engine at a minimum for all code that processes web content;

There is absolutely zero way to satisfy the latter part here. It's at best non-enforceable. If I'm using C++ and use std::span instead of a c-style array, is that good enough?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#316

Post by madeofpalk »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #296
madeofpalk wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Firefox/Chromium extension APIs are just javascript. Orion reimplements them with the features that Webkit/JavascriptCore provides.

Oh alright, thanks for telling. Is there no way that something can be done for PWA abilities? What's stopping PWA on ios, I don't really follow? I would love it if you can clear up my confusion regarding it.

What actually does “PWA” mean? What APIs or functionality is iOS lacking?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#318

Post by eviks »

geon wrote: post #284
concinds wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

> If scrappy Firefox Because ie at the time was dogshit . FF was such an indisputable improvement that people just had to switch. Chrome great. There is nothing a newcomer can do to compete.

There are plenty of things to compete on: efficiency (startup time, memory use), security (from ad blocking on sites to extensions to the app itself), customization (both in looks and behavior)

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#319

Post by jccalhoun »

ninkendo wrote: post #38

The fact we still can't get this in the US is atrocious. They have already paid the cost to implement this for the EU and Japan, but simply don't allow it for US users because... spite, I guess? Horrible. It reminds me of when I asked for my account to be deleted from some online learning site (Udacity maybe?) And they're response was: "Nope, we only do that for European users." Like they went through all the effort…

Apple didn't donate to Trump's inauguration, give him a gold and glass paperweight, and donate to his demolishing of the East Wing so that they would have to open up the app store in the USA

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#320

Post by simfree »

geon wrote: post #284
concinds wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

> If scrappy Firefox Because ie at the time was dogshit . FF was such an indisputable improvement that people just had to switch. Chrome great. There is nothing a newcomer can do to compete.

There is plenty a browser could do to compete, from blocking modern popups (which now occur within the window, putting a gradient over the content forcing you to interact with their "subscribe to our mailing list" or "join our site to socialize" prompt that you would have to waste time clicking past, auto-pausing looping videos in unfocused tabs, throttling crypto mining tabs, providing uBlock Origin, handling WiFi Terms of Service click through, etc.

Think of the plethora of instances where you wish your browser made minor changes to make browsing easier

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