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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

291–300 of 431 posts

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

Not even a day ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46454115 : > I want my browser to protect me from ALL those things. Ublock origin did precisely that, then Google went in to kill ublock origin. Ublock lite is nowhere near as good. > > I consider this betrayal - naturally by Google, but also by random web designers such as on the python homepage who consider it morally just to pester visitors when they do not w…

Why did you link me to a random comment?

edit: I see now. Firefox still has uBlock Origin. You missed the point. If Chrome wants to make itself less attractive, you should celebrate.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was almost 20 years ago though. Things are really different now and it's hard to imagine Firefox saving anything these days. Sadly, the only entities powerful enough to control FANGs are FANGs (although fingers crossed the EU holds it's nerve and EU nations belatedly act on the realisation that being beholden to US tech giants is a massive strategic blunder, akin to relying so heavily on US military satellite da…

I don't have much faith in Firefox saving us, given its organizational turnover and cultural issues. I have much more faith in a new entrant, like Ladybird. I should be able to use Ladybird on iOS. Why not?

The problem with "new entrant" is that only revolutionary features convince users to switch en mass.

Tabs/stability (Firefox vs IE). V8 (Chrome vs Firefox).

Anything else is a battle of attrition, where the deepest pocketed competitor in terms of advertising spend wins. Or Google, because it flood all its own advertising channels.

And Chrome still barely only won.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even a day ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46454115 : > I want my browser to protect me from ALL those things. Ublock origin did precisely that, then Google went in to kill ublock origin. Ublock lite is nowhere near as good. > > I consider this betrayal - naturally by Google, but also by random web designers such as on the python homepage who consider it morally just to pester visitors when they do not w…

Why did you link me to a random comment? edit: I see now. Firefox still has uBlock Origin. You missed the point. If Chrome wants to make itself less attractive, you should celebrate.

If you read it, it shows the impact Google has on browser quality for end users.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#294
post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome. And they are unlikely to make that push considering apple demands the app to be distributed only in Japan. Besides, the mobile web is becoming more and more of a niche platform, since the web is becoming centralised as time passes and most main sites redirec…

Until websites block you from logging in, completing transactions, ordering items until you open it with Chrome

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#295
post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

Firefox exists.

And its userbase is essentially just HN users unfortunately

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sorry, I don't really have an Iphone so I was just going on a wild hunch. I would love to discuss about it and how Orion works then. My question to you is, how is Orion possible to get firefox/chromium extensions working in webkit then, Because I know that Orion's core itself is built on top of webkit but I am wondering what other additions they did to make it possible to have firefox extensions as an example on…

The Firefox/Chromium extension APIs are just javascript. Orion reimplements them with the features that Webkit/JavascriptCore provides.

Oh alright, thanks for telling.

Is there no way that something can be done for PWA abilities? What's stopping PWA on ios, I don't really follow? I would love it if you can clear up my confusion regarding it.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper, full blocking of ads and trackers. Just because you can't see most of them doesn't mean the network requests aren't getting through. And you're not getting a free and open-source extension. And you're not getting 3 extra bucks a month in your wallet, because those grifters made you pay for some pixels despite not contributing to the adblock lists their "business" depends on.

what do you mean? 1Blocker blocks network requests. It might not block everything to the degree of uBlock Origin, but it does block network requests.

The stuff that makes it through is what I mean.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#298
post #205

Especially with Apple, I often see people scared that if they open up their ecosystem, then users will lose one of the most consumer friendly tech companies out there. It’s not just “if apple allows alternative browsers then Chrome will win”, which is (probably) true. It’s: * If Apple allows alternative app stores then the whole ios ecosystem will rot and be foooded with malware, brough up during the Apple vs. Epic c…

It's weird that people never distill those arguments to their most basic logic. Apple directly dictate the shape, speed, and existence of any innovation on iOS, and by extension, any innovation involving mobile phones or meant to run on mobile phones. They don't simply have "power" over it, in the sense that they get to say "Yes" or "No". iOS is locked down in such a fundamental way that any innovation will not come…

> iOS is locked down in such a fundamental way that any innovation will not come about unless Apple specifically envisions it and designs the OS to support it.

No platform highlights the issue you hit on here like VisionOS.

It is barren. Not just because of the lack of customer base for paid apps, that hurts too, but because the APIs aren't there, and because you can't hack on the private APIs or the hardware directly...they won't be. The app store on Vision Pro is filled with half-assed "spatial computing" consumption apps (Wow, I can put the stock tickers on the wall! That I can only see with these huge goggles on! Neat!), "showroom" apps that are just pure consumption, mostly 3D models of products, and media consumption apps. The games that exist are all pretty lame, and you can't enjoy any of the backcatalog of games written for VR because A. They'd never pass app review, and B. you can only use the PSVR controllers with it, so my Index controllers that I already have are useless.

The Vision Pro demands being as open as the Mac. The problem space is too ill defined and the hardware too packed with interesting use cases to gate behind the restrictive App Store rules. The iPad model worked because it was 2010 and had all the upward momentum of the iPhone to ride. Here and now, on a stagnant, occupied app market where room for innovation is small, on a device with far less promise, the App Store restrictions take all the air out of the room. The entire device is suffocated by Apple's iron grip and belief that they are entitled to own any good ideas that happen on the device, and that they are entitled to 15-30% of any economic exchange happening on the device. Just an utterly kneecapped platform right out of the gate, pricing, specs, weight, and everything else aside. There are no good apps because you just can't write the sort of apps your imagination is likely to want to make. Hell, accessing the main camera wasn't allowed until visionOS 2.0, and you have to use the "enterprise apps" API/entitlement to access it.

Apple's grip has killed it. It is a glorified TV you can wear on your face. It's a very good TV. It's even alright as an external monitor for a *real* computer.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#299
post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

> What kind of control would Chrome have over the web?

Do you remember Manifest Version 3? They did away with ad block extensions.

If we all end up using Chromium, there’s no longer a web standard. It’s whatever conforms to Google’s standard because all sites will have to support Chromium. That means there will be an undocumented spec. It’s much too difficult for browser engine developers to compete with them, they don’t have nearly the resources.

Do you think the web should be an open standard? How can company catch up if Google is the one pushing the envelope?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was almost 20 years ago though. Things are really different now and it's hard to imagine Firefox saving anything these days. Sadly, the only entities powerful enough to control FANGs are FANGs (although fingers crossed the EU holds it's nerve and EU nations belatedly act on the realisation that being beholden to US tech giants is a massive strategic blunder, akin to relying so heavily on US military satellite da…

I don't have much faith in Firefox saving us, given its organizational turnover and cultural issues. I have much more faith in a new entrant, like Ladybird. I should be able to use Ladybird on iOS. Why not?

Ladybird has too much pride.

They are more concerned with making something from scratch than something that actually works.

Also they’re switching over to Swift which can only be worse for performance.

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