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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

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Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#271

Post by benoau »

bloppe wrote: post #107
hypeatei wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought the same. Obviously there isn't much of a technical hurdle since they have the engineering talent. But, keeping track of all these cross-region rules and training your staff+customers on it has to be quite costly in multiple respects (time, energy, mental models, etc.) My personal opinion is that keeping the browser engine locked down isn't much of a profit generator, unlike maintaining full reign…

Hobbling browser engines is a key pillar of app store control. Decent PWA support would be a massive blow to Apple's bottom line.

It's not just that, Apple also gets $20+ billion per year in AdSense revenue from Google for being the default search engine in Safari. A change of even 10% marketshare would cost them billions, and this money is pure profit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/14/google-pays-apple-36percent-...

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#272

Post by lokar »

concinds wrote: post #245
lokar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how? Poor standards implementation? Performance? UX?

I cannot go through a day without "this tab has been reloaded due to a problem" on Safari iOS and any other browser. It's been happening for years, across phones. It's dogshit. Safari Mac is fine. Even if that's an edge case, it's why having only one engine is pathological. Maybe Safari iOS works fine for you. Not for me. I don't want rationalization on why it's not Apple's fault, or somehow not Safari's fault, or "t…

I did not know that was even a thing that can happen.

Do you see any pattern to which pages it happens to?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#273

Post by basisword »

vips7L wrote: post #261
basisword wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extension ecosystem that Google has been locking down? You can get the same UBlock extension on Safari and Chrome now (on Safari desktop and iOS).

Good thing I mentioned Firefox. Ublock on safari and iOS is not the same.

Yes, it's not the same as the one available still on Firefox. But you said "I’d like the extension ecosystem from chrome or Firefox". I'm pointing out that the Chrome one has been limited and now runs the same UBlock version that Safari runs.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#274

Post by zx8080 »

geraldwhen wrote: post #230
torben-friis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome. And they are unlikely to make that push considering apple demands the app to be distributed only in Japan. Besides, the mobile web is becoming more and more of a niche platform, since the web is becoming centralised as time passes and most main sites redirec…

Google has no actual content left to find. It’s AI spam website after AI spam website. And if you find any content, it’s on a website riddled with ads. AI search has none of these issues. Google from 15 years ago was wildly superior to today.

The last working site in google search is reddit. Adding keyword reddit enables it. But it's disappointing.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#275

Post by icehawk »

concinds wrote: post #241
MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

Not even a day ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46454115:

> I want my browser to protect me from ALL those things. Ublock origin did precisely that, then Google went in to kill ublock origin. Ublock lite is nowhere near as good.

>

> I consider this betrayal - naturally by Google, but also by random web designers such as on the python homepage who consider it morally just to pester visitors when they do not want to be pestered. I don't accept ads; I don't accept pop-ups or slide-in effects (in 99.999% of the cases; notifications for some things can be ok, but this does not extend in my book to donation Robin Hood waylanders)."

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#276

Post by cosmic_cheese »

kelthuzad wrote: post #259
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebKit's progress has been significant in recent years, it's just been more focused on things like improving CSS instead of things like an API that tells the developer how many beers the user has in their fridge.

[flagged]

It depends on how you look at it.

From my perspective, Google tends to focus on somewhat niche features that will benefit a small slice of web apps. In contrast, the things Apple works on are those that benefit everything from static blog sites to huge commercial web apps.

I wish Google were more like Apple in this regard, because the primitives from which everything web is built are still overwhelmingly crude, which results in the half-ton-truck-built-on-a-golf-cart frameworks and apps the web has become famous for. Making the web reasonable to develop for without a dependency tree that looks like a spiral fractal would do way more to make it flourish as a platform than things like access to the GPU and USB devices.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#277

Post by userbinator »

Jach wrote: post #258
MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

People didn't mind when IE was muscling in and adding useful new features. They abandoned Netscape because the features made the web better. It wasn't until they stopped adding features to the browser itself that it really started to become a problem. They would still add features, but too much relied on ActiveX -- which wasn't necessarily evil, there's a grand vision there of component re-use across the OS and varie…

It wasn't until they stopped adding features to the browser itself that it really started to become a problem.

Only for those misguided "push the web forward" idiots who just wanted the latest shiny shit, aided by Google's plans to control the Internet itself. Plain HTML worked well enough for everything else.

Google's weapon is change. They have the resources to outcompete everyone else by churning the "standards" as much as they want. The less people think that constant change is necessary, the better the web will be.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#278

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

overfeed wrote: post #95
GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

> It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another They will continue to do so for as long as it remains profitable. Navigating the complexities of multiple jurisdictions is the bread and butter of MNCs - it's the price of admission into the multinational club. Apple is guaranteed to have lawyers, admins, an…

And since billions of dollars are on the line it will remain profitable for a long time.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#279

Post by jonhohle »

panstromek wrote: post #249
jonhohle wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this a lot, but have used Safari as my since it was launch in 2003.Performance has always been great. UI has always been minimalist, out of the way, and has never upsold me on anything. There are times where it lags and times where it leads standards. There may be a a site every now and then that doesn’t work, but iOS makes that less likely. The only thing I can ever think of is that it’s not or doesn’t have .…

It might look ok from user's point of view, but lot of the problems fall on web developers who have to work around a bunch of these issues to make their pages work in Safari

I was doing web dev or related from 2000 to 2016. IE6 was far worse than anything Safari has done.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#280

Post by chongli »

bigfudge wrote: post #266
concinds wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

That was almost 20 years ago though. Things are really different now and it's hard to imagine Firefox saving anything these days. Sadly, the only entities powerful enough to control FANGs are FANGs (although fingers crossed the EU holds it's nerve and EU nations belatedly act on the realisation that being beholden to US tech giants is a massive strategic blunder, akin to relying so heavily on US military satellite da…

I don't have much faith in Firefox saving us, given its organizational turnover and cultural issues.

I have much more faith in a new entrant, like Ladybird. I should be able to use Ladybird on iOS. Why not?

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