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Don’t Work for Assholes

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Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#31

Post by kurtosis »

thinkzig wrote: post #15
kurtosis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay maybe we mean different things - when I talk to people who complain that a boss or coworker is treating them like an asshole, when I ask for more details I find that by "asshole behavior" they just mean that they are being direct and explicit in their criticism. Hell, I've spoken with people who think that any critical comment is asshole behavior. I don't see how it's possible to be direct and explicit in critic…

It feels like we're talking about two different things in your two posts. In the first, I thought you were saying "people have been assholes to me before but I learned to deal with it because they were giving me feedback that I ultimately appreciated even though they left me feeling angry and humiliated." My point above was that being able to give constructive criticism is a strength, but giving people feedback that…

I at least try to follow the rule that you should never criticise people in front of others. I've met people who seem to be able to criticise others without humiliating them and there seem to be at least two principles

(1) do it in private

(2) convince people that they thought of whatever you were criticising them about

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#32

Post by FlorinAndrei »

StrawberryFrog wrote: post #9
lionhearted wrote: post #7

Nice piece, great sentiment, except the very dangerous: "Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are." Not true! Had a partner embezzle money from my company who seemed like a really nice guy. Most people can be charismatic and polite for even a year at a time before their true colors come out. To get a real idea about someone, you need to get to know their character. The mor…

Right. A bad first impression is a bad sign. The reverse (A good first impression) is not necessarily the case.

Excellent observation.

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#33

Post by almost »

Sounds like good advice to me. Life's too short....

One minor bit that got me wondering though. He talks about a "bullet proof contract", anyone else here doing freelancing use a contract? I've not ever used one and wouldn't really feel right doing so. Also I wonder how possible it is to get one that really is bullet proof... Anyone with experiences to share?

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#34

Post by forthewin »

ajju wrote: post #27
comatose_kid wrote: post #20

This includes managers at s/w companies as well. My department at bigCo was just re-organized, and I have a new boss. At our first one-on-one meeting, he casually mentioned that he was 'not a micro-manager'. This immediately caught my attention - when a manager says this, they invariably turn out to be micro-managers. Since then, I have had to report my status 3 times a week, and he writes detailed emails laying out…

Wow. I have to report status 3 times a day! I want to quit as soon as I can, but I always thought this frquency was the norm not the exception.Are you saying majority of the big co bosses ask you for status less than 3 times a week?

At my last job, we had biweekly status meetings that sometimes slipped to once a month?

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#35

Post by fraying »

lionhearted wrote: post #7

Nice piece, great sentiment, except the very dangerous: "Nine times out of ten, the first impression someone gives you is exactly who they are." Not true! Had a partner embezzle money from my company who seemed like a really nice guy. Most people can be charismatic and polite for even a year at a time before their true colors come out. To get a real idea about someone, you need to get to know their character. The mor…

The 10th time out of 10 is the guy who doesn't seem like an asshole, but probably is.

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#36

Post by derefr »

pg wrote: post #26

More generally, don't have dealings with assholes. Don't work for them, don't hire them, don't have them as cofounders, don't take investment from them. One of the things I always ask speakers at YC is what they know now that they didn't know when they were 25. The most common answer is probably to trust their instincts about people. When you run into a person who's bad news, there's often a little voice inside you s…

Does this extend to not selling your product to, or marketing to, assholes? I can see "don't have assholes as repeat/contract-based clients" as obvious, but what about "don't have assholes as one-time customers?" If you never have to deal with them again, does it matter?

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#37

Post by derefr »

edw519 wrote: post #19

Competent + Nice = Best Combination Competent + Asshole = I'll put up with them Incompetent + Nice = I'll hold their hand Incompetent + Asshole = You've got to be kidding

Reminds me of H-B situational leadership theory (with the client analogous to one's "followers", and "willingness to perform" analogous to assholery; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersey-Blanchard_situational_th...) You want a client in the R4 or R2 performance readiness level, are willing to put up with an R3, and don't want to deal with R1s (no one does; unlike R1 employees, R1 clients aren't worth the investment.)

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#38

Post by helveticaman »

derefr wrote: post #36
pg wrote: post #26

More generally, don't have dealings with assholes. Don't work for them, don't hire them, don't have them as cofounders, don't take investment from them. One of the things I always ask speakers at YC is what they know now that they didn't know when they were 25. The most common answer is probably to trust their instincts about people. When you run into a person who's bad news, there's often a little voice inside you s…

Does this extend to not selling your product to, or marketing to, assholes? I can see "don't have assholes as repeat/contract-based clients" as obvious, but what about "don't have assholes as one-time customers?" If you never have to deal with them again, does it matter?

I can think of two exceptions that support the rule:

Very impersonal transactions: say you're running a kiosk, and a guy comes up to buy a candy bar, and you recognize him from college, but know he's an asshole. You can still sell him that candy bar.

Smaller of two assholes: there will be times when you will have to deal with an asshole to avoid an even bigger asshole. Then it's fine; it's a life skill to be able to deal with difficult people.

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#39

Post by fraying »

almost wrote: post #33

Sounds like good advice to me. Life's too short.... One minor bit that got me wondering though. He talks about a "bullet proof contract", anyone else here doing freelancing use a contract? I've not ever used one and wouldn't really feel right doing so. Also I wonder how possible it is to get one that really is bullet proof... Anyone with experiences to share?

If you don't use a contract, you have no protection when a client refuses to pay. Also, legally, the client does not own your work until you assign it to them. A contract covers both parties.

Re: Don’t Work for Assholes

#40

Post by helveticaman »

walesmd wrote: post #17
josefresco wrote: post #11

I too worked for an asshole, but not in the freelance capacity but as an employee. The worst part was he would recognize that he was an asshole and apologize all the time, only to go back to being an asshole soon after. I always wanted to tell him that recognizing that you're an asshole and not breaking the behavior was worse than someone who's an asshole and doesn't know it.

I am, admittedly, one of those assholes. I don't characterize myself as rude (I keep my mouth closed when I chew, I stay away from others and doorways when I smoke, I hold doors open for people). But, if you get in a conversation with me, I will take control. I tend to talk over people to get my point across (although I don't care whether you agree with me or not, not in an attempt to convince) and I tend to talk to…

Have you tried Ritalin?
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