iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#221

Post by crazygringo » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #209

otterley wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m truly curious: as either a user or a developer, how are you impacted by Apple’s behavior and decisions with respect to its web browser engine policy? What is it preventing you from accomplishing?

Specifically for me, my company has a product that could use Bluetooth, but Safari will never implement the Web Bluetooth API, where Chrome has for some time on Android. So the workaround is to use Wifi instead (my product supports both bluetooth and Wifi), which drains the phone battery faster. No, we do not want to write our own iOS app where Apple can then extort us for a percentage of any sales through the app, a…

> Apple purposely won't implement some APIs so they can force developers to create an app for their app store where they can collect money from any additional sales through the app.

So then why doesn't Firefox support the Web Bluetooth API either? How can you jump to the conclusion that the lack of Safari support is about apps?

The reality is that the Web Bluetooth API is a draft. Not ratified. Not on the formal standards track. And Firefox doesn't even intend to implement it, due to security and privacy concerns around it and the fact that is it not ratified.

But go on assuming it's all about being anticompetitive...

> It's all spelled out in the DOJ suit, why won't you just read it?

I just did a Ctrl+F for Bluetooth and everything relates to smartwatches, not web APIs. There are only two references to Safari, none of which say anything about standards. The phrase "web standard" appears nowhere. The document is 88 pages long, and it's not immediately obvious to me where any of what you're talking about is spelled out. I hope you'll understand I'm not going to spend my afternoon reading the whole thing.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#222

Post by robertoandred » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

arn3n wrote: post #205

Especially with Apple, I often see people scared that if they open up their ecosystem, then users will lose one of the most consumer friendly tech companies out there. It’s not just “if apple allows alternative browsers then Chrome will win”, which is (probably) true. It’s: * If Apple allows alternative app stores then the whole ios ecosystem will rot and be foooded with malware, brough up during the Apple vs. Epic c…

Isn’t the alternative Android?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#223

Post by leptons » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #76

leptons wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Apple doesn't allow any other browser engines on iOS is due to them collecting up to 30% of purchases made through the apps from the app store. If a developer can do the same things with a capable web browser, then they won't need to create a native iOS app and that cuts into Apple's app revenue. So Apple purposely hobbles Safari so it doesn't have any advanced browser APIs for stuff like bluetooth or othe…

What evidence do you have, other than speculation, that Apple is so motivated? What standard features are missing from Safari’s rendering engine that makes it a less capable browser such that developers are forced to produce apps instead?

Specifically for me, my company has a product that could use Bluetooth, but Safari will never implement the Web Bluetooth API, where Chrome has for some time on Android. So the workaround is to use Wifi instead (my product supports both bluetooth and Wifi), which drains the phone battery faster.

No, we do not want to write our own iOS app where Apple can then extort us for a percentage of any sales through the app, and we have to pay for the priviledge to develop that app, as well as buy Apple hardware to do so.

So instead we use Wifi, where we can maintain one single codebase - the web application, which works on both Android and iOS, but has to use Wifi. If Apple allowed Chrome to use its own browser engine, we would simply tell users to install Chrome to interact with our device. Then we don't have to pay Apple for anything, nor should we have to.

Apple purposely won't implement some APIs so they can force developers to create an app for their app store where they can collect money from any additional sales through the app. It's all spelled out in the DOJ suit, why won't you just read it??

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/media/1344546/dl?inline

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#224

Post by concinds » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #118

WD-42 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I’m currently doing - it’s barely functional. I’m sure it’ll get there eventually but it misses a ton of stuff the desktop version blocks.

I'm running 1Blocker on iOS Safari, what am I not getting?

Proper, full blocking of ads and trackers. Just because you can't see most of them doesn't mean the network requests aren't getting through. And you're not getting a free and open-source extension. And you're not getting 3 extra bucks a month in your wallet, because those grifters made you pay for some pixels despite not contributing to the adblock lists their "business" depends on.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#225

Post by crazygringo » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:05 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #202

givinguflac wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously just link to a google search of people who agree with you?? Solid investigation. Hard disagree on safari being even in the same ballpark as IE; what’s your alternative, Google owns the entirety of the browser space?

I included that link not as "research" but as proof that I am not the only one calling Safari "the new IE". It's been written about ad nauseum, and just because you think a google search is pointless doesn't mean my argument lacks merit - and if you were to do your own "research", I'd bet you would start with a google search. Thousands of people have written about it, so go see what they have to say, I am not the onl…

> So I have to have a real iPhone to debug problems with Apple's implementations. Safari fucking sucks

You'll still have to debug it. Even when other browsers are allowed, Safari isn't going away.

"Safari fucking sucks" isn't an argument that Apple is being anticompetitive. There are a bunch of things that suck about Chrome too. And Firefox as well. No product is perfect.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#226

Post by leptons » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:07 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #91

leptons wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> people will figure that out and adapt for themselves >No they won't. People on HN will. Not the average person. Yes they will, Apple has made it very easy to see. To check iOS app power usage, go to Settings > Battery, where you'll see a breakdown of battery consumption by app for the last 24 hours or 10 days, showing usage time and background activity, allowing you to identify power-hungry apps and manage setting…

> go to Settings > Battery, where you'll see a breakdown of battery consumption by app And what percentage of users do you think ever check that, or even know it's there to check? > If that's a problem for web browsers, then it's a problem for every single app in the app store. No it's not, the app store disallows arbitrary code execution. > There's nothing really unique about a web browser app that makes it more ris…

>And what percentage of users do you think ever check that, or even know it's there to check?

It does not matter. The functionality is there. If a user can't figure it out then they have other problems that having a smartphone won't fix for them.

>No it's not, the app store disallows arbitrary code execution.

You mean Javascript interpreters inside a web browser? lol. You mean like Safari is allowed to do? So only Apple can allow Apple apps to do this? I'm not sure you're thinking this through. Apples rule is a made-up rule designed to keep competition out, and force developers to write native apps so Apple can extort the developers by taking a percentage of purchases made through the native app.

>Yes there is -- JavaScript.

That's the dumbest possible argument you could make. Javascript has been very much sandboxed and secure for a very long time. There have been flaws in Safari that allowed remote code execution had nothing to do with Javascript, so good luck moving that goalpost somewhere else.

>...by Safari. It wouldn't be if you allowed any developer to write their own JavaScript interpreter as part of their own browser.

I'm not recommending my users use H@ck0rbR0Ws3R, I'm recommending they use Google Chrome, specifically because it supports the APIs my company needs to use for our product (on Android at least).

Okay Tim Apple, the DOJ is coming for you. You can explain this all to them when they come knocking, and they will.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#227

Post by otterley » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:09 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #223

otterley wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have, other than speculation, that Apple is so motivated? What standard features are missing from Safari’s rendering engine that makes it a less capable browser such that developers are forced to produce apps instead?

Specifically for me, my company has a product that could use Bluetooth, but Safari will never implement the Web Bluetooth API, where Chrome has for some time on Android. So the workaround is to use Wifi instead (my product supports both bluetooth and Wifi), which drains the phone battery faster. No, we do not want to write our own iOS app where Apple can then extort us for a percentage of any sales through the app, a…

We’ve responded to this in a different thread. See elsewhere.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#228

Post by concinds » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:09 PM UTC

ChadNauseam wrote: post #136

leptons wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is reality. Safari is the worst browser by far , it's been compared to Microsoft's old Internet Explorer browser. But don't take my word for it, lots of people have written about it... https://www.google.com/search?q=safari+is+the+new+ie And Apple purposely will never implement lots of APIs that only their native apps allow (which other browsers implement), specifically to force many developers to creat…

I suspect it might have been motivated by antitrust concerns, but safari is really not that bad. Check out Interop 2025: https://wpt.fyi/interop-2025 They generally are pretty caught up on features. They have webgpu, they support the web notifications API (once a PWA is installed), lots of stuff. My main gripe is that they make it too hard to install PWAs, but we're still waiting for an actual API for that. (Maybe in…

No, it's just not true.

Interop 2025 is a subset of web features, but Apple gets a veto on which features get included in each Interop round, and vetoes heavily. It doesn't reflect interoperability in general. Safari also consistently starts out the worst each year, and improves the slowest.

They don't support notifications correctly, they have a semi-broken implementation. Only a subset of sites will work, even though they'll work perfectly on Chrome or Firefox or even minor browsers. Even if you put the site on the homescreen.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#229

Post by ribosometronome » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:11 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #206

torben-friis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome. And they are unlikely to make that push considering apple demands the app to be distributed only in Japan. Besides, the mobile web is becoming more and more of a niche platform, since the web is becoming centralised as time passes and most main sites redirec…

It was the default on the Mac and it’s nowhere near the most popular there. Google pushes Chrome HARD.

Similarly, Edge is the default on Windows. Chrome has 75% of the market share.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#230

Post by geraldwhen » Thu, Jan 01, 2026, 10:11 PM UTC

torben-friis wrote: post #185

MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome. And they are unlikely to make that push considering apple demands the app to be distributed only in Japan. Besides, the mobile web is becoming more and more of a niche platform, since the web is becoming centralised as time passes and most main sites redirec…

Google has no actual content left to find. It’s AI spam website after AI spam website.

And if you find any content, it’s on a website riddled with ads.

AI search has none of these issues. Google from 15 years ago was wildly superior to today.