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Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

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Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#531
post #148

Are there any creators that evolved and shoot at high frame rates that eliminate the need for motion interpolation and its artifacts or is the grip of the bad old film culture still too strong? (there are at least some 48fps films)

It's unbelievable that we try so hard to solve this problem even after CRTs are extinct. Every LCD-type screen is easily made to refresh at any rate below its max. If we can't show a 24fps movie at 24fps on our TVs (or smoothly smoothed at 48fps)...what are we doing as a society? It's not like people think TV is an unimportant corner of their lives.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#532

I'd pay good money for a dumb 4K OLED TV that does nothing but show whatever is coming in through the HDMI port. I use a Playstation 5 for everything including Netflix, Apple TV and so on. But every time I turn on the PS5, my TV detects the Playstation and automatically changes the TV's Sound and Video modes to "Gaming", which makes dialog difficult to hear on TV. So I change the setting manually using its horrible r…

Sceptre makes them, and they're not terribly expensive, although in the US the price has gone up significantly for some strange, remote reason.

Absolutely love my dumb Sceptre TV. Colors aren't super fantastic, but for the casual observer, it is just fine and gets the job done.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#533
It's funny too because the show doesn't even need most of the screen real estate. The most impactful scenes are kept to the middle third of the screen so that they can be cropped in vertical video for edits on TikTok and Instagram. That's on top of the repetitive dialogue crutch, designed so that you don't even have to stop scrolling on your phone to follow the plot on your TV. It's all slop now.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#534
post #509

I know this sounds extreme but I get actually angry/frustrated and often just can't watch peoples TVs. I don't watch TV myself but if I go to someones house and they have the TV on and it's one of those "enhanced" TVs, it boils my blood. I went to film school, I have emmy's, I've watched hours long conversations about frame rates and dynamic range choices and so many aspects of the creative process that the TV then..…

If TV settings offend you, you should be offended by anyone watching anything made for movie theater on a TV or iPad or - gasp - a phone, regardless of settings. And it should be offensive to watch with the lights on or windows open. ;)

To be fair, 24p is crap. You know and agree with that, right? Horizontal pans in 24p are just completely unwatchable garbage, verticals aren’t that much better, action sequences in 24p suck, and I somehow didn’t fully realize this until a few years ago.

A lot of motion-smoothing TVs are indeed changing framerate constantly, they’re adaptive and it switches based on the content. I suspect this is one reason kids these days don’t get the soap-opera effect reaction to high framerate that old timers who grew up watching 24p movies and 60i TV do. They’re not used to 24p being the gold standard anymore, and they watch 60p all the time, so 60p doesn’t look weird to them like it does to us.

TVs with motion interpolation fix the horizontal pan problem, so they have at least one thing going for them. I’m serious. Sometimes the smoothing messes up the content or motion, it has real and awful downsides. I had to watch Game of Thrones with frame interp, and it troubled me and it ruins some shots, but on the whole it was a net positive because there were so many horiz pans that literally hurt my eyeballs in 24p.

Consumers, by and large, don’t seem to care about brightness, color, or framerate that much, unless it’s really bad. And most content doesn’t (and shouldn’t) depend on brightness, color, or framerate that much. With some real and obvious exceptions, of course. But on the whole I hope that’s also something film school taught you, that you design films to be resilient to changes in presentation. When we used to design content for analog TV, where there was no calibration and devices in the wild were all over the map, you couldn’t count on anything about the presentation. Ever had to deal with safe regions? You lost like 15% of the frame’s area! Colors? Ha! You were lucky if your reds were even close to red.

BTW I hope you take this as lighthearted ribbing plus empathy, and not criticism or argument. I’ve worked in film too (CG film), and I fully understand your feelings. The first CG film I worked on, Shrek, delivered final frames in 8bit compressed JPEG. That would probably horrify a lot of digital filmmakers today, but nobody noticed.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#535
post #495

It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It seems they want to make these settings usable without specialist knowledge, but the end result of their opaque naming and vague descriptions is that anybody who actually cares about what they see and thinks they might benefit from some of the features has to either systematically try every p…

"Filmmaker mode" is the industry's attempt at this. On supported TVs it's just another picture mode (like vivid or standard), but it disables all the junk the other modes have enabled by default without wading though all the individual settings. I don't know how widely adopted it is though, but my LG OLED from 2020 has it.

The problem with filmmaker mode is I don't trust it more than other modes. It would take no effort at all for a TV maker to start fiddling whit "filmmaker mode" to boost colors or something to "get an edge", then everyone does it, and we're back to where we started. I just turn them off and leave it that way. Companies have already proven time and again they'll make changes we don't like just because they can, so it's important to take every opportunity to prevent them even getting a chance.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#536
post #148

Are there any creators that evolved and shoot at high frame rates that eliminate the need for motion interpolation and its artifacts or is the grip of the bad old film culture still too strong? (there are at least some 48fps films)

It's unbelievable that we try so hard to solve this problem even after CRTs are extinct. Every LCD-type screen is easily made to refresh at any rate below its max. If we can't show a 24fps movie at 24fps on our TVs (or smoothly smoothed at 48fps)...what are we doing as a society? It's not like people think TV is an unimportant corner of their lives.

Considering that practically the only metric of economic success in the US oligarchy is the price of the flat-screen TV you'd imagine they'd at least work by now. At at least one price range.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#537
post #495

It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It seems they want to make these settings usable without specialist knowledge, but the end result of their opaque naming and vague descriptions is that anybody who actually cares about what they see and thinks they might benefit from some of the features has to either systematically try every p…

"Filmmaker mode" is the industry's attempt at this. On supported TVs it's just another picture mode (like vivid or standard), but it disables all the junk the other modes have enabled by default without wading though all the individual settings. I don't know how widely adopted it is though, but my LG OLED from 2020 has it.

On my LG OLED I think it looks bad. Whites are off and I feel like the colours are squashed. Might be more accurate, but it's bad for me. I prefer to use standard, disable everything and put the white balance on neutral, neither cold nor warm.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The choice wasn't intentional, I'm a filmmaker. Yes, it was. > What next, gonna complain resolution is too high and you can see costume seams ? Try playing an SNES game on CRT versus with pixel upscaling. The art direction was chosen for the technology. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jh2ssirC1oQ > The film IS the burger, you said it yourself, it shows off where the movie cheapened on things. If you want a steak you…

>> The choice wasn't intentional, >I'm a filmmaker. Yes, it was. What you are is dishonest. Quote my entire sentence not cut it in half changing its entire meaning > The choice wasn't intentional, it was forced by technology and in turn, methods were molded by technological limitation. There was no choice unless you think "just make it look bad by ignoring tech limitations" is realistic choice of someone actually tak…

> What you are is dishonest.

I was being civil, but you're taking this too far. I was wary of engaging with your first comment given the bombastic tone, but I thought you might appreciate my domain experience. I disagree with everything you're saying, but I am not going to engage with you further.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#539
post #142

And how about the content garbage? Not spoilering anything but man...

Yeah this season started off decent but by the penultimate episode it’s nosedived off a cliff…

The first four episodes this season weren't good. The whole D&D metaphor already felt played out but is instead leaned on heavily again. The pop references are plentiful, but 5 seasons of the same references also gets old. The military is straight up a bad guy now and one way to handle them is straight up killing them in gunfights.

Then the release of the next three were just so much worse. More of the same bad stuff, but now they're rewriting the bad guys, good guys, and world setting. Major characters have fallen to the wayside, other side characters are now main. Tons of stupid, "I'm angry at you" followed by splitting up while being hunted by monsters, or hashing out some grievance while being chased by monsters in an end of the world scenario.

The cast is not awkwardly cute anymore. They are full grown adults playing children. I can forgive this as I know the difficulties in getting a production together. But it does make the petty squabbles -- which are constant -- more unbearable.

I'll watch the last episodes at they come out this week, but I have low hopes. It would be nice to see something actually wrapped up nicely even if the show is stumbling to the finish. So help me though, if they win through the power of friendship and love...

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various sections of my screen (LG C series) are significantly thicker than 30mm. Also - this isn’t a speaker problem this is a content problem. I watched the princess bride last week on the TV, and didn’t require captions, but I’m watching Pluribus on Netflix and I’m finding it borderline impossible to keep up without them.

> Pluribus on Netflix on AppleTV/TV+

Apologies, “Netflix” has become like hoover, Google, or Kleenex - eponymous for the product.
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