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Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

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Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#551

Post by alex_young »

BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

Lost humanity is right, and it stems from lost community.

During the Great Financial Crisis astute observers pointed to the loss of local bankers for most transactions as a component of the multifaceted structural causes. When you have your mortgage through the bank down the street, you're much less likely to mail them the keys instead of paying your bill, especially if you have to see the banker in the grocery store etc.

What did we do about this? Of course we didn't learn anything - we actually further consolidated banking.

The same is true of train service, traffic etiquette, and political discourse. The tragedy of the commons is exacerbated by moving away from local community.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#552

Post by trelane »

yieldcrv wrote: post #550
trelane wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First World was US/NATO aligned. Second World was USSR/Warsaw Pact aligned. Third world was unaffiliated with either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

I think this is relevant because the colloquialism of it meaning "developed" versus "undeveloped" doesn't work when you try to build on top of it it's impossible to build on what Third World means or add lore like Fourth World when the definition is on a shaky and now non-existent foundation, while much of the unaffiliated world is highly developed now.

Yes. Also, fitting the USSR into the extended framework, by not recognizing that it already was in the framework to begin with.

IIRC Wikipedia says the term was coined ca. 1950s, so it could be argued that the USSR's decline was already factored into the term.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#553

Post by sparqlittlestar »

dpacmittal wrote: post #490
mystifyingpoi wrote: post #308

The term "kidnapped" is kinda over the top, but I can understand the author. I've travelled with Polish trains a lot when studying, and there were a few situations like this. Especially frustrating, if the train stops because of "some issue" while you can literally see the platform 200m away. No, you can't get out and walk the track (which will be guaranteed to be empty, because well, the train is broken) and take a…

I don't think it's safe if the track is electrified

Metros may have electrified third rail, but the ones next to DB train tracks are all with a top covered third rail. Usualy power deliviery is via catenaries.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#554

Post by potato3732842 »

Telemakhos wrote: post #477
this_user wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much in German work culture - and also culture in general - is about covering your own arse. If you follow the procedure, even if the outcome is disaster, you are not at fault; you were just implementing the rules, and you cannot be held accountable. It's the fault of whoever came up with the rules, except that is usually not a single person, but some amorphous entity that ran through some decision making process…

That sounds a lot like industrial safety culture: blame the process, not the worker, so we can iterate on the safety built into the process if there is a failure, because doing so lessens the chance of future failures. It’s a great way to build airplanes.

It's also a crap way to run a culture when you scale it.

You need to make the people best positioned to notice something is stupid responsible enough to make them say no fuck you because otherwise every oversight and edge case will be substantially more likely to cause harm because they have less skin in the game.

See also: Cops getting "paid vacations" for bad stuff.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#555

Post by valcker »

forinti wrote: post #436
BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

The Germans follow the rules too strictly and in South America we ignore the rules too lightly. I wonder if there's a country somewhere with the right balance.

France, while not perfect, is still balancing it +/- correctly.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#556

Post by reddalo »

Zealotux wrote: post #221
BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

I worked for a massive German company you heard of, this sounds more like the typical German philosophy of strictly following the process -- as absurd as it might be -- and refusing to take initiative for anything that is not explicitly defined as one's responsibility. As a French, the culture shock was brutal and I never really got around that work attitude. I went through a similar issue back when I used to take a…

A German saying "I was just following orders" sounds scary if you think of certain olden times.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#557

Post by locallost »

abigail95 wrote: post #444
locallost wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because after kidnapping you are always allowed to leave the vehicle you were kidnapped with and continue with your day. Sorry, but no.

If you want to continue the analogy via consequences, it's not a defense to kidnapping to say you let them go at the end.

For it to be a kidnapping there needs to be a realistic threat you will not be let go. Have a nice day.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#558

Post by SoftTalker »

zahlman wrote: post #421
jltsiren wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had trouble buying train tickets with a credit card in Germany. If I had to guess, your issue was that you were trying to use a card that didn't support chip-and-PIN or contactless payments.

> didn't support chip-and-PIN or contactless payments. As opposed to... swiping the card? Are there really cards out there that exclusively support that?

If this story was more than a few years ago it's plausible that the card didn't have a chip. I still have a VISA debit card without a chip, and it was issued only two years ago.

Also chip-and-pin is mostly not enabled with American credit cards or card payment terminals

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#559

Post by tomesch1982 »

Clickbait.

The opening paragraph contains some factual errors (you can only get kicked off a train when you do something illegal) and the whole story lives by exaggeration and missing facts.

It is as moronic as saying people were kidnapped when a plane had to divert because of the weather. Also he would have been entitled to get a paid cab ride to his destination when that happens. But that is just one of the facts he did not mention.

This story should be ignored and tossed into the local legends garbage.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#560

Post by krisoft »

potato3732842 wrote: post #535
krisoft wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trains should never(TM) stop without a platform if they'd have stopped the train on both sides and some old lady tripped and fell and broke her nose on the rail. Yes. That is a good reason to not stop without a platform. But I tell you one even better. Look at the layout of the Troisdorf station. There are tracks with platforms, and there are through tracks. The trough tracks are surrounded by live tracks on both s…

>Yes. That is a good reason to not stop without a platform. But I tell you one even better. Look at the layout of the Troisdorf station. There are tracks with platforms, and there are through tracks. The trough tracks are surrounded by live tracks on both sides. If the train stops there, unlocks the doors, and somehow coaxes the people to climb down those people are immediately on a live track. To get off of it they…

> Just let the people who are actually there and can actually see the situation use some judgement.

Okay. But we are beyond that. The people who were there handled the situation and we both seem to agree that they didn't handle it well. We just seem to disagree how they should have handled it differently.

Your proposal is that they should have dumped people on the tracks. My proposal is that they should have done more to get the train next to a platform.

> This is unfortunately exactly an example of the type of take I was complaining about

Tell me where do you disagree. Have you looked at the track layout of the station? Have you looked at images of the platforms?

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