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IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

blog.rabidgremlin.com

51–60 of 91 posts

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#51
post #25

As questionable of a move that is, this kind of excites the 'omg, is flash finally going to die' moment i've been waiting for, for years.

Why is that? Flash seems pretty logical to me. If you were giving the choice to either design with a single language that compiles to bytecode and runs in a vm(jit), or an array of interpretive scripts that's heavily submitted to fragmentation, which would you choose? You'd probably go for the first, as would I. Flash may be a bad implementation of good idea, but alternatives have not exactly wooed me either. To be q…

I agree that the idea of a cross-browser, cross-OS bytecode platform is really nice. Every time I hear of "X-to-javascript" compilers I cringe a bit.

But with flash the fatal problem is, and always was, that the only viable implementation of the interpreter is a proprietary and buggy blob, not even available for all platforms. Apart from that being a plugin also made it clunky, too much like a "java applet" (it never integrated into a page as well as javascript does).

If it had been based on an open specification (like HTML5 is now) then it could have been successful. Different browsers could have competed for the fastest and most secure JIT, like they do with javascript now. The end result would probably have been great. Alas...

Even non-technical people I hear complaining almost daily about what a piece of crapware the Adobe Flash plugin is, after it crashed for the zillionth time. Everyone wants flash to die, as the last sites that still require it either move to HTML5 or are replaced.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#53
post #44

"First they took away Flash, but I didn't care because I was not a Flash developer..." Whatever your stance is on Flash, this is a scary development if you don't like walled gardens.

There was recently a big furor over Notch's statement that he refuses to let Microsoft certify his games for Win8. Many people felt he was being childish and throwing a tantrum, while others think he's a visionary and working to prevent MS from walling off Windows like the 360.

Personally, I think it's a fight worth fighting, since they really could go that route if they got enough buy-in on it. And I don't doubt they would, if they thought it was in their best interests. That's what corporations do.

Luckily, Linux has recently gotten a lot of support from indie developers via Kickstarter (and the players' demands for a Linux version) and it's starting to look more viable as a platform for commercial games. We can hope.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#54
post #37

The keyword is lockdown. I am all for giving hate to flash. It is commonly found vulnerable. It produce slow websites which eats memory and cpu. It has poor history in non-windows systems. But in all, I have serious doubt this call was made for any reason beyond pushing users to their app-store. games? online experience? chat? By forbidding flash, companies are bit more forced to turn to apps with their products. Sur…

"Lockdown" is not the correct term. 1. Flash isn't prohibited on Windows RT devices. This is distinctly different from Apple's approach with iOS, and Google has removed Flash from Android. [1] 2. Existing Flash websites will run on Windows RT devices. Windows RT will ship with the desktop version of IE10. [2] Microsoft has made explicit what we all know. There are some websites that use Flash appropriately and in a w…

What bugs me is the fact that we are forced (not a default list, not an opt out list, forced with no alternative if you want to use IE) to defer to Microsoft's judgement on what is a "flash appropriate" site and what is not. Did Newgrounds make their list? Shockwave? Pogo?

Quite frankly, I don't trust them with that power. This is the company that just got off of "monopoly probation".

I'm starting to really tire of this trend where developers lock away even power user settings (like the ability to decide what fucking plugins run in your browser) in the name of "security".

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#55
post #37

The keyword is lockdown. I am all for giving hate to flash. It is commonly found vulnerable. It produce slow websites which eats memory and cpu. It has poor history in non-windows systems. But in all, I have serious doubt this call was made for any reason beyond pushing users to their app-store. games? online experience? chat? By forbidding flash, companies are bit more forced to turn to apps with their products. Sur…

> I have serious doubt this call was made for any reason beyond pushing users to their app-store

Never thought I'd be saying this, but it looks to me like they want to push everyone away from Flash towards web standards like HTML5.

> I would not trust web-sockets to be left alone if they seriously would start to threaten the app world

Windows 8 hasn't even been released yet, so 'app store' apps hardly hold an entrenched position worth protecting. MS needs open standards and a thriving crossplatorm ecosystem more than anyone.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#56
Microsoft is being like Apple; like Apple, they know Flash isn't a good answer for tablets and mobile and they're guiding people towards something that is. In fact, Microsoft is pushing developers towards HTML 5.

Note that desktop IE 10 supports Flash and other plug-ins just fine. I run Windows 8 preview on the computer in my ham shack and I find that do almost all my browsing with the desktop IE anyway. I just use the Metro IE to visit QRZ, which is a web application for looking up call signs and logging contacts.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lockdown" is not the correct term. 1. Flash isn't prohibited on Windows RT devices. This is distinctly different from Apple's approach with iOS, and Google has removed Flash from Android. [1] 2. Existing Flash websites will run on Windows RT devices. Windows RT will ship with the desktop version of IE10. [2] Microsoft has made explicit what we all know. There are some websites that use Flash appropriately and in a w…

What bugs me is the fact that we are forced (not a default list, not an opt out list, forced with no alternative if you want to use IE) to defer to Microsoft's judgement on what is a "flash appropriate" site and what is not. Did Newgrounds make their list? Shockwave? Pogo? Quite frankly, I don't trust them with that power. This is the company that just got off of "monopoly probation". I'm starting to really tire of t…

Read the guidelines http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/jj193557%28v=vs.8...

> We place sites with Flash content on the CV list if doing so delivers the best user experience in Internet Explorer 10 with those sites. For example, how responsive is the content to touch? Does it work well with the onscreen keyboard, or affect battery life? Do visual prompts comply with the Windows Store app user experience guidelines? Sites that rely on capabilities (for example, rollover events and peer-to-peer (P2P) functionality) that are not supported within Windows UX guidelines for Windows Store apps, and don't degrade gracefully in their absence, are better off running in Internet Explorer 10 for the desktop with Flash.

It sounds to me like they're just saying they don't want plugins screwing up their shiny new UI. If you want to run your arbitrary plugins, just do it with the classic desktop version of the browser.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bugs me is the fact that we are forced (not a default list, not an opt out list, forced with no alternative if you want to use IE) to defer to Microsoft's judgement on what is a "flash appropriate" site and what is not. Did Newgrounds make their list? Shockwave? Pogo? Quite frankly, I don't trust them with that power. This is the company that just got off of "monopoly probation". I'm starting to really tire of t…

Read the guidelines http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/jj193557%28v=vs.8... > We place sites with Flash content on the CV list if doing so delivers the best user experience in Internet Explorer 10 with those sites. For example, how responsive is the content to touch? Does it work well with the onscreen keyboard, or affect battery life? Do visual prompts comply with the Windows Store app user experience guidel…

>It sounds to me like they're just saying they don't want plugins screwing up their shiny new UI.

The end user's shiny new UI. That's why this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Why not just make Flash click to enable? That'll stop ads and most other shenanigans while still making things that users want to access (and haven't been blessed by MS for whatever reason) still able to access them.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#59
post #5

Big question is: will Silverlight run on websites not whitelisted by Microsoft? Otherwise it's a dirty trick.

Silverlight is more dead than Flash and MS killed itby alienating Silverlight developers.

No, they had to kill it because the iPad wouldn't run browser plugins. They then transitioned to a plugin free HTML5 mobile web to help all developers.

Re: IE10 won't run Flash unless website is whitelisted by Microsoft

#60
post #44

"First they took away Flash, but I didn't care because I was not a Flash developer..." Whatever your stance is on Flash, this is a scary development if you don't like walled gardens.

There was recently a big furor over Notch's statement that he refuses to let Microsoft certify his games for Win8. Many people felt he was being childish and throwing a tantrum, while others think he's a visionary and working to prevent MS from walling off Windows like the 360. Personally, I think it's a fight worth fighting, since they really could go that route if they got enough buy-in on it. And I don't doubt the…

The problem with Notch was that it was impossible to find out exactly what he was ranting about when he is fine with accelerating the demise of the PC by having his game run on the locked down iOS but not releasing it in the Windows 8 desktop store which is open.

Read this three part article about the confusion. http://www.withinwindows.com/2012/09/28/notch-doesnt-hate-wi...

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