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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#81

Post by meowface »

lbrito wrote: post #58
throw-the-towel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as American domination is, wnat's coming after is might easily be worse.

Why? China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?

It could be the case that they become the hegemon and don't ever conquer anyone besides Taiwan and it still sucks due to how they treat ~20% of the Earth's population (their own citizens).

A liberal, democratic China becoming the hegemon is very possibly better than the status quo (especially under Trump and with the surge of far-right mainstreaming in the US), but China as it is now cannot be trusted to be a good steward of a hypothetical Pax Sinica, just as Trumpist America cannot be trusted.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#82

Post by gcanyon »

adventured wrote: post #61
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The greatest era of prosperity expansion and peace in world history courtesy of pax Americana. The best decades - measurably - for humanity overall have taken place since the US assumed that role post WW2.

> courtesy of pax Americana

Can we back this up? As an american, I'd like to think it's true, but I'd take a historian's viewpoint seriously.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#83

Post by peppersghost93 »

adventured wrote: post #61
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The greatest era of prosperity expansion and peace in world history courtesy of pax Americana. The best decades - measurably - for humanity overall have taken place since the US assumed that role post WW2.

Depends on where you were during those decades. If you're in one of the unlucky countries that didn't do what the US wanted you likely suffered enormously.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#84

Post by habinero »

lisbbb wrote: post #54
verdverm wrote: post #32

It's not just science, all sorts of conferences and other group gatherings are actively avoiding meeting in the US to avoid difficulties for international travelers.

[flagged]

Not true. Border agents were always tinpot dictators, but they're awful these days.

I personally know white collar professionals who were turned back at the border for having a B1 visa instead of a TN visa for temporary work, while another person in their group was let through with no problem. They've been using the same kind of visa for a decade before this. And they were white dudes from Canada.

My Mexican friends said they're not stepping foot in the US for the foreseeable future, and I don't blame them. They have families and can't risk being disappeared and potentially killed because of some idiot border agent.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#85

Post by robswc »

zeroCalories wrote: post #39

I always feel weird reading statements from the EU regarding this relationship. There's always talk of the U.S abandoning it's position, guilt tripping, etc. but very little about what the EU plans to do in retaliation. Cut off the U.S from the research? Retaliatory tariffs? Why is the U.S leaving NATO a concern for the EU, but not a concern for the U.S? The fact that these are not the top talking points makes me thi…

Personally, as someone that has heard non-stop about how horrible the US is from Europeans ever since I was on the internet, I don't give statements from EU officials much weight. It isn't anything new.

I have family that has migrated _from_ Europe to the US, they still seem to hold this attitude that they know what is best for the US. They come live here for a higher quality of life and income, then go vacation in Europe like kings, talking about how much cheaper things are, without an ounce of irony. Not sure how they do it.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#86

Post by gcanyon »

lisbbb wrote: post #54
verdverm wrote: post #32

It's not just science, all sorts of conferences and other group gatherings are actively avoiding meeting in the US to avoid difficulties for international travelers.

[flagged]

> ... and have white skin

You forgot that. It's not that black and white (pun fully intended). But it's not not that black and white either.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#87

Post by numbers_guy »

zeroCalories wrote: post #39

I always feel weird reading statements from the EU regarding this relationship. There's always talk of the U.S abandoning it's position, guilt tripping, etc. but very little about what the EU plans to do in retaliation. Cut off the U.S from the research? Retaliatory tariffs? Why is the U.S leaving NATO a concern for the EU, but not a concern for the U.S? The fact that these are not the top talking points makes me thi…

It's the classic breakup story, one party is just done and want to cut contact, but the other party is still hopeful and wants to find a way to restore the relationship. The EU is not independent minded in the same way that China and Russia are. That's the problem with them. Their leaders don't want to act independently from the US, because the European wealthy and politically connected classes consider themselves transatlantic, and they want to keep enjoying close ties to the US, even as the US pulls away.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#88

Post by Sharlin »

lisbbb wrote: post #54
verdverm wrote: post #32

It's not just science, all sorts of conferences and other group gatherings are actively avoiding meeting in the US to avoid difficulties for international travelers.

[flagged]

That's a cute idea. Are you sure it's aligned with the reality?

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#89

Post by heironimus »

afavour wrote: post #27
zkmon wrote: post #22

It sounds more like a parroting of a popular sentiment as a conclusion, rather than providing a data-based assessment. What are the numbers? What's the real impact? How much lead does USA have over it's nearest competition?

The U.S. Is Funding Fewer Grants in Every Area of Science and Medicine https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/12/02/upshot/trump-... Far too early to know the exact long term effects but it’s definitely happening.

Is there any metric saying what the proper amount is or is it always “more”? Is there a point where others should do more and the US less?
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