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Engineers who dismiss AI

terriblesoftware.org

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Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#161

Post by dkdcio »

hu3 wrote: post #66
plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #6

> The engineers refusing to try aren’t protecting themselves; quite the opposite, they’re falling behind. The gap is widening between engineers who’ve integrated these tools and engineers who haven’t. For me, however, there is one issue: how can I utilize AI without degenerating my own abilities? I use AI sparingly because, to be honest, every time I use AI, I feel like I'm getting a little dumber. I fear that excess…

I worry about that too. But at this point, it's like refusing to use vehicles to travel long distances in fear of becoming physicaly unfit. We go to the gym.

I like that analogy a lot. FWIW I also find myself learning a lot more at a higher rate with LLM usage

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#162

Post by jennyholzer2 »

dkdcio wrote: post #158
jennyholzer2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not an insult, it's an observation

> push back by insulting AI idiots you on another comment in here lol you’re blinded by the hate! let it flow through you! insult the users of the bad neural nets until the world heals! don’t back down!

This was a good faith observation.

In my experience, AI users are meaningfully stupider and more gullible than the rest of the population.

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#163

Post by jennyholzer2 »

dkdcio wrote: post #155
g-b-r wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem bullying to me

they called me an idiot in the other thread for pointing out AI is broader than just LLMs (after they called everyone that uses AI an idiot) lol they’re clearly very angry and bitter, and I believe this is not the first account they’ve made to bombard threads with insults. in another comment they advocate for insulting the “AI idiots” it’s not bullying in that it’s more entertaining than insulting, but still ah in an…

you're putting words in my mouth. i said the big STUPID neural nets.

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#164

Post by simonsarris »

TGower wrote: post #7

"AI coding is so much better now that any skepticism from 6 months ago is invalid" has been the refrain for the last 3 years. After the first few cycles of checking it out and realizing that it's still not meeting your quality bar, it's pretty reasonable to dismiss the AI hype crowd.

I think we have a real inflection point now. I try it a bit every year and was always underwhelmed. Halfway through this year was the first time it really impressed me. I now use Claude Code.

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#165

Post by dkdcio »

jennyholzer2 wrote: post #162
dkdcio wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> push back by insulting AI idiots you on another comment in here lol you’re blinded by the hate! let it flow through you! insult the users of the bad neural nets until the world heals! don’t back down!

This was a good faith observation. In my experience, AI users are meaningfully stupider and more gullible than the rest of the population.

In my experience, people who bombard threads with insults based on the technology people use (a specific set of neural networks in this case) are…well, don’t have much better to do in life. you openly advocated for insulting and bullying people in your other comments. don’t back down with this “it’s just an observation” bs, own it! be you!

…or change your behavior and be a better person, whatever works

btw I’ve been doing “the AI” stuff since 2018 in industry and before in academia. I find your worldview displayed in your comments to be incredibly small and easily dismissible

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#166

Post by stemlord »

tjchear wrote: post #83
plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #6

> The engineers refusing to try aren’t protecting themselves; quite the opposite, they’re falling behind. The gap is widening between engineers who’ve integrated these tools and engineers who haven’t. For me, however, there is one issue: how can I utilize AI without degenerating my own abilities? I use AI sparingly because, to be honest, every time I use AI, I feel like I'm getting a little dumber. I fear that excess…

If we sees ourselves less as a programmer and more as a software builder, then it doesn’t really matter if our programming skills atrophy in the process of adopting this tool, because it affords us to build at a higher abstraction level), kind of like how a PM does it. This up-leveling in abstractions have happened over and over in software engineering as our tooling improves over time. I’m sure some excellent softwa…

Isn't this the exact reason why modern software is so bloated?

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#167

Post by phplovesong »

thisissomething wrote: post #62
phplovesong wrote: post #35

The fact that i hear this mantra over and over again: "She wrote a thing in a day that would have taken me a month" This scares me. A lot. I never found the coding part to be a bottle neck, but the issues arise after the damn thing is in prod. If i work on something big (that will take me a month) thats going to be anywhere from (im winging these numbers) 10K LOC to 25K LOC). If thats a bechmark for me the next guy u…

It really depends on how you use it. I really like using AI for prototyping new ideas (it can run on the background while I work on the main project) and for getting the boring grunt work (such as creating CRUD endpoints on a RESTful API) out of the way. Leaving me more time to focus on the code that really is challenging and need a deeper understanding of the business or the system as a whole.

The boring stuff like crud always needs design. Else you end up with a 2006 era PHP-like "this is a rest api" spaghetti monster. The fact that AI cant do this (and probably never will) is just another showstopper.

I tried AI, but the code it produces (on a higher level) is of really poor quality. Refactoring this is a HUGE PITA.

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#168

Post by puff_pastry »

g-b-r wrote: post #159
puff_pastry wrote: post #124

It's been somewhat disheartening to see many techie spaces (also HackerNews) become so skeptical and anti AI. It's as-if the luddites are at it again and they're just refuting progress because of a bad impression or because they fear the consequences. AI is a tool and it shuold be treated as such. Also, beware of snake oil salesmen. Is AI going to integrate widely into the world? Yes. Is it also going to destroy all…

New things are not always progress. And even if LLMs turn out to really be a net positive and a requirement for the job, they're antithetical to what most software developers appreciate and enjoy (precision, control, predictability, efficiency...). There sure seems to be two kinds of software developers: those who enjoy the practice and those who're mostly in for the pay. If LLMs win it will be second ones who'll sta…

The two categories of software developers you mention already existed pre ChatGPT and will likely continue to exist. If anything, AI's going to make those who're in it just for the money much less relevant.

Do you really think that Software Engineering is going to be less about precision, control, predictability, and efficiency? These are fundamental skills regardless of AI.

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#169

Post by dkdcio »

jennyholzer2 wrote: post #163
dkdcio wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they called me an idiot in the other thread for pointing out AI is broader than just LLMs (after they called everyone that uses AI an idiot) lol they’re clearly very angry and bitter, and I believe this is not the first account they’ve made to bombard threads with insults. in another comment they advocate for insulting the “AI idiots” it’s not bullying in that it’s more entertaining than insulting, but still ah in an…

you're putting words in my mouth. i said the big STUPID neural nets.

now THIS is pod racing! :)

Re: Engineers who dismiss AI

#170

Post by tjr »

Tripping5292 wrote: post #88
TGower wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might even be true this time, but there is no real mystery why many aren't inclined to invest more time figuring it out for themselves every few months. No need for the author of the original article to reach for "they are protecting their fragile egos" style of explanation.

The productivity improvements speak for themselves. Over time, those who can use ai well and those who cannot will be rewarded or penalized by the free market accordingly.

That's what it really all comes down to, isn't it?

It doesn't matter if you're using AI or not, just like it never mattered if you were using C or Java or Lisp, or using Emacs or Visual Studio, or using a debugger or printf's, or using Git or SVN or Rational ClearCase.

What really matters is in the end is, what you bring to market, and what your audience thinks of your product.

So use all the AI you want. Or don't use it. Or use it half the time. Or use it for the hard stuff, but not the easy stuff. Or use it for the easy stuff, but not the hard stuff. Whatever! You can succeed in the market with AI-generated product; you can fail in the market with AI-generated product. You can succeed in the market with human-generated product; you can fail in the market with human-generated product.

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