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'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

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Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#191

Post by m4ck_ »

Xylakant wrote: post #32
avidiax wrote: post #20

We could at least require that all applications have a standardized format for resumé and a list of legally allowable questions. No more requiring the candidate to do 30 minutes of data entry to encode their resumé into your HR system. Then a ghost job wouldn't really waste much time, since uploading a JSON should take 30 seconds.

When we post a job ad on LinkedIn, I already get 30 spam answers in the first few minutes, people that have obviously spent not a single second reading the requirements. And you want to further automate this? I’ll just ask my people person to automate the response. We really try to spend the time to answer every application, but since AI generated applications have become a thing, we have decided to not answer those.…

Sorry about that! I apply to those jobs because you put out some insane requirements, and I assume you're not actually looking for a single SME with expertise across half a dozen distinct domains and a decade of experience in tech that hasn't existed for half that time.

Unless, you are actually hoping to find a full stack developer that can also serve as the principal engineer for your entire network, storage, VMware infra, plus support basically anything with cord all for ~$80-100k.

Normally when you get to the point of discussing things with a human, you find out what the actual job is. The job ad is almost always completely irrelevant to the actual job.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#192

Post by red-iron-pine »

pjc50 wrote: post #119
rsanek wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Consumer_Privacy_Ac... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Educational_Rights_and_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Reporting_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bl...

Exactly - no national, general data protection law. Although the California one looks pretty similar to the GDPR from the summary, it's not truly national.

it is de facto national because California has the most people and is insanely wealthy; there is no F500 company handling broad consumer data that does not have a presence or customers there.

there have already been CCPA enforcements against companies like Tractor Supply, Sephora, Honda, and Google (tho the GOOG was more of a "violated a lot of stuff including CCPA").

It doesn't have enough teeth to scare FAANGs, who have the money and technical ability to do whatever, but it can definitely keep companies in line.

source: did CCPA compliance and security at multiple F500

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#193

Post by Xylakant »

PapstJL4U wrote: post #147
Xylakant wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that would filter for German applicants. Who else would have a fax?

Japan as far as I know - old allies and such ;)

That is good to remember - I'll keep that in mind if I ever want to hire in [Germany, Japan] without spelling this out for some reason.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#194

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pharrington wrote: post #142
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other situations related to money or contracts, it would be a criminal offense punishable by prison time What are you thinking of? In most cases, that falls firmly under the category of bullshitting. Annoying. Unprofessional. Dishonest. But rarely criminal. What makes this possibly illegal (though I'm still unsure if it's crimial) is that it's specifically around employer-employee relations.

Fraud is very illegal.

> Fraud is very illegal

Fraud requires intent. And a lot of commercial bullshitting either does not have fraudulent intent, or has it but in an entirely unprovable way.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#195

Post by zingababba »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> Dr Escalera adds that she has also heard examples of companies posting jobs to obtain and sell data. How is that not illegal? Pretending to offer jobs just to suck in resumes to some database just seems like it should be illegal. Or just like running scams is illegal but they are in another country "so tough luck, you'll never get us"?

I swear to god a couple of the interviews I have been in lately have felt more like free consultations rather than me applying for a job.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#196

Post by nerdsniper »

franktankbank wrote: post #188
cons0le wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop thinking about laws, and think about enforcement. If the cops don't care about something, it's defecto legal. We have all sorts of fancy laws on the books that aren't enforced. Environmental regs, animal welfare regs, anti trust laws, white collar anti fraud laws. Data laws fall into this bucket. Nobody that would actually enforce those laws gives a dam. We won't be able to solve any of our problems with…

This really has me thinking I ought to just delete my Linkedin. I can't say I've ever got anything out of it except spam and fomo. I don't even like to keep it up-to-date because someone is just ripping that information off.

I believe a LinkedIn profile is mandatory to apply to YC. I could assume you might not be interested in applying to YC, but it’s an interesting fact, and might generalize somewhat for many other applications.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#197

Post by danaris »

VerifiedReports wrote: post #31
lovich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some animals are more equal than others and the government has decided that companies are not only citizens but the more equal group. Half the shit companies do that gets them a fine would land any individual in jail for committing the same action, but we let them get away with just paying it off. Simultaneously we give those organizations the same rights. It’s a system with three classes of citizen where the…

Citizens United, a monumental betrayal of every citizen.

While this is true, the first such betrayal came in 1976, with Buckley v Valeo.

This was (AIUI) the US Supreme Court decision that established the precedent that money counts as protected speech.

So much of the rot that has occurred since then can be traced back to this.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#198

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

terminalshort wrote: post #145
moralestapia wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your time might be worthless but mine isn't.

Yeah, you go ahead and sue someone for the few minutes of your time it took to send in a application for a fake job. Then you'll really see what wasting time looks like.

You are missing a point. The only thing it really does is force people to pursue other forms as online channel is too polluted for anyone with sense/options/skill ( or all of the above ). So it leaves desperate, optionless, those without skills and everyone else who fell through the cracks. Another system undermined for no clear benefit. It does not benefit the employer. It does not benefit the employee. It does benefit some data brokers.. and only then for a bit until the rest of the market catches up..

But was it worth it?

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#199

Post by GJim »

jagoff wrote: post #175
GJim wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total opposite here. If you can't be bothered with a simple cover letter (a paragraph or two is fine) highlighting why you are a good fit and just send a CV..... Frankly, it comes across as low effort spamming.

[flagged]

If you consider briefly highlighting the relevant parts of your experience to a potential employer as "fucking shit", then perhaps you are unsuitable for the role being offered.

Re: 'Ghost jobs' are on the rise – and so are calls to ban them

#200

Post by franktankbank »

nerdsniper wrote: post #196
franktankbank wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really has me thinking I ought to just delete my Linkedin. I can't say I've ever got anything out of it except spam and fomo. I don't even like to keep it up-to-date because someone is just ripping that information off.

I believe a LinkedIn profile is mandatory to apply to YC. I could assume you might not be interested in applying to YC, but it’s an interesting fact, and might generalize somewhat for many other applications.

I think that is a mutually beneficial signal probably.
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