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Please just try HTMX

pleasejusttryhtmx.com

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Re: Please just try HTMX

#71

Post by komali2 »

xnorswap wrote: post #39
avisser wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why bother learning two paradigms Objection. Your React is ultimately turning into HTML so you DO have to learn HTML + CSS. You just have an abstraction over it.

That's like saying my C# is getting turned into CLR bytecode, so I do have to learn CLR bytecode because I have an abstraction over it. Yet I know roughly what it is, but I couldn't begin to actually write the stuff myself. Good abstractions mean you don't have to worry about the layer below. Now of course it's not really the case that React holds up to being a good abstraction, especially when it comes to CSS and st…

> That's like saying my C# is getting turned into CLR bytecode, so I do have to learn CLR bytecode because I have an abstraction over it.

For a good part of your career this is true, but eventually you will need to justify your senior salary by being able to debug react via looking at library code itself, or understanding the event bubbling under the hood, or figure out why the output css isn't working.

Saw a video, wish I could remember who, someone developing a game in c-something. There was some bug they couldn't figure out so they jumped into I guess the assembly for that block of higher abstracted code, and was able to find some kind of memory issue. Vague, sorry, but point is I remember being really impressed, thinking oh shit yeah if I really want to be an expert in my field I better be able to really understand my stack all the way to the bones.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#72

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

I liked the idea that htmx is good for those middle of the road cases where you're not doing anything fancy but I didn't end up using it very often though because if I'm not doing something fancy then I'm not going to ask my user to leave their terminal anyhow.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#73

Post by jadbox »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #29

Hey, I created htmx and while I appreciate the publicity, I’m not a huge fan of these types of hyperbolic articles. There are lots of different ways to build web apps with their own strengths and weaknesses. I try to assess htmx’s strengths and weaknesses here: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ Also, please try unpoly: https://unpoly.com/ It’s another excellent hypermedia oriented library Edit: the arti…

How does Unpoly and htmx differ?

Re: Please just try HTMX

#74

Post by kitd »

hard_times wrote: post #53

Not HTMX but Alpine.js has been a complete revelation to me. What clicked for me was that you're enhancing server-rendered HTML, not replacing it. Need a dropdown menu? Add x-data="{ open: false }" and you're done. Want to show/hide elements? x-show does exactly what you expect etc. No bundler required, no compilation step.

Alpine even has a plugin to perform the same function as Htmx if you need it

https://alpine-ajax.js.org/

Re: Please just try HTMX

#75

Post by komali2 »

purerandomness wrote: post #13
philipwhiuk wrote: post #4

The proselyting over frameworks is the worst bit of the web ecosystem. If your solution is actually good, it will get adopted eventually... Forget React, there's still stuff written in jQuery and JSP. Why the rush to convert everything - you're not a missionary on a mission, just build your stuff in stuff you like? The attack on npm is ridiculous, when (apart from introducing a permanent vulnerability in the form of…

> If your solution is actually good, it will get adopted eventually... I wish this were true. Unfortunately, often the things that get adopted are the things hyped up the most, not the ones which are technically superior. Popularity, marketing budgets and inertia often dictate what's popular. As with all biases, we need to actively and deliberately work against these forces, if we value craftsmanship and professional…

Nextjs, great example of this. I've yet to find an actually valid use case to choose it outside of "our incestor's relationship got us unlimited vercel credits for like three years."

Re: Please just try HTMX

#78

Post by recursivedoubts »

jadbox wrote: post #73
recursivedoubts wrote: post #29

Hey, I created htmx and while I appreciate the publicity, I’m not a huge fan of these types of hyperbolic articles. There are lots of different ways to build web apps with their own strengths and weaknesses. I try to assess htmx’s strengths and weaknesses here: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ Also, please try unpoly: https://unpoly.com/ It’s another excellent hypermedia oriented library Edit: the arti…

How does Unpoly and htmx differ?

unpoly is a more complete framework with concepts like layers and best in class progressive enhancement

htmx is lower level and focuses on generalizing the idea of hypermedia controls

https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3648188.3675127

Re: Please just try HTMX

#79

Post by dec0dedab0de »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #4

The proselyting over frameworks is the worst bit of the web ecosystem. If your solution is actually good, it will get adopted eventually... Forget React, there's still stuff written in jQuery and JSP. Why the rush to convert everything - you're not a missionary on a mission, just build your stuff in stuff you like? The attack on npm is ridiculous, when (apart from introducing a permanent vulnerability in the form of…

You definitely don't need npm for htmx, it's one file with no dependencies.

Re: Please just try HTMX

#80

Post by stefan_ »

perardi wrote: post #60

I did. My startup did. And now we’re going to rip it all out and move to a React front-end. HTMX makes response handling much more complex. Every endpoint returns 3–5 different HTML fragments. Frontend and backend must agree on every scenario — success, validation errors, system errors, partial updates, full reloads. And HTMX is still a fairly obscure library. The documentation and examples are lacking, there isn’t a…

It's terrible, why would I want my endpoints to return random HTML fragments? I realize thats how you did it in the JQuery times, but I was never in those - at that time we simply had template engines in the backend so this HTML slop wouldn't contaminate everywhere..

Most of the frontend stuff I do is for internal pages on embedded devices, and I'm very happy with a structure where I have the frontend being a full React fancy component lib SPA that is eventually just compiled down to a zip bundle of files that the backend needs to know nothing about and can serve as dumb files. The backend is a JSON API of sorts that I would need to build anyway for other use cases.

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