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US threatens EU digital services market access

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Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#101
post #65

EU has the capital but does it have the knowledge workers to build out alternatives?

It has the knowledge workers but not the capital or laws that make it attractive for them to build tech firms.

Many US tech firms would be either illegal to operate in the EU or legally very difficult. Any social network is a problem to operate in the EU because you are considered fully liable for the speech acts of users regardless of company size.

Now look at web search, YouTube, social media, messaging apps, cloud... they all involve reproducing the speech of users at scale without pre-moderation. So you just can't operate them in Europe without endless legal problems and costs that make you uncompetitive. Even operating something like Hetzner is hard!

So if the EU continues picking fights with the US and access is lost, who in their right mind would sign up for the multi-decade effort to compete with them? It would be an endless nightmare and there's really no point. The EU Commission has absolutely no institutional will or ability to compete with the US in tech or service markets, meaning the EU will absolutely blink first. They are all Outlook and Netflix addicts, all it will take is their wives/husbands/children bitching about how they suddenly can't use the App Store and they'll fold quickly. So anyone dumb enough to try and build up a business that competes with the US firms purely by being EU-homed will get immolated the moment the EU gives up and submits to what the White House wants, which they are 100% guaranteed to do.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#102

The tariff talk was ostensibly because the EU exported more goods to the US than the US exported to EU. The US exports far more digital services to the EU, though. Understanding those things, it would seem a particularly unwise framing for the US government to focus on EU digital services exports. LLMs are rapidly commoditizing software, and in particular making it far easier to handle the regulatory compliance and r…

Uh, you're planning to outsource regulatory compliance to an LLM? In the EU? Which has already banned the usage of "algorithms" that aren't "transparent" via the DMA? That isn't going to work.

As for cloning the US software industry with LLMs ... with which non-US LLMs, exactly? Mistral? The best LLMs for coding (which still can't handle many important tasks) are: Gemini, Claude, GPT. All non-EU models.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#103
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people work comfortably for EU companies. Yes, there’s more money somewhere else in this world, but when your income is good enough other things matter more. I think you are exaggerating the problem. Europe can certainly handle building the core tech stack to achieve sovereignty.

The internship I had half way through my studies for a US based company (10+ years ago) paid more than most tech jobs you can land in Paris with a masters degree (right now)... I think you're underestimating the problem. Tech workers are seen as an expense, not a resource, and certainly not as assets.

There are plenty of developer jobs in Europe paying 70k+ €. While salaries may be lower than in the US, your real quality of life can be much better because:

1. Lower food costs. Groceries are cheaper and healthier and eating out is more affordable (+ tipping is not necesary)

2. Generally lower rent. Unless you live outside a few very expensive cities (but it would compensate with higher salaries)

3. No need for a car. Public transport usually costs around 40 to 60 € per month.

4. No need to save for college. Public universities are free or very cheap

5. Healthcare is covered. No huge insurance premiums or surprise medical bills.

6. Less working time. Shorter workweeks, fewer unpaid overtime hours, and stronger limits on burnout.

7. More paid vacation. 25 to 30 days off per year is standard plus public holidays

8. Paid parental leave for both parents without risking your job.

9. Stronger worker protections including notice periods and unemployment benefits.

10. Child benefits and subsidized childcare in many countries.

11. Lower overall stress due to less financial anxiety around health and education.

12. Better work life balance and healthier company culture.

13. High quality public services and safer cities.

14. Easy and cheap travel across many countries. ...

I guess I will stop here.

Lower salary does not mean lower standard of living.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a huge mistake. We should have learned that the USA can't be trusted when Nixon ended bretton woods so it didn't have to give France it's gold back.

The EU countries had decades to build and foster alternative companies yet they did not manage to do so. China did though. Was it a lack of political will or short-termed-ness? Maybe both but the end result is the same. You can't undo 20 years of inaction in a few years. It will take decades before viable EU competitors emerge and begin to rival US giants and that's if they even are allowed to do so in the first plac…

The EU countries had decades to build and foster alternative companies yet they did not manage to do so

They did so quite a few times, and then they let the home-grown alternatives be bought out by US capital.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#105
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internship I had half way through my studies for a US based company (10+ years ago) paid more than most tech jobs you can land in Paris with a masters degree (right now)... I think you're underestimating the problem. Tech workers are seen as an expense, not a resource, and certainly not as assets.

There are plenty of developer jobs in Europe paying 70k+ €. While salaries may be lower than in the US, your real quality of life can be much better because: 1. Lower food costs. Groceries are cheaper and healthier and eating out is more affordable (+ tipping is not necesary) 2. Generally lower rent. Unless you live outside a few very expensive cities (but it would compensate with higher salaries) 3. No need for a ca…

I'm sorry, €70K netto maybe, but that represents usually €140K bruto, which is quite uncommon.

€70K netto in the other hand is not a good salary in Western Europe if you want a decent quality of life.

It means that you will never own more than a studio appartement in your lifetime.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#106
post #26

The EU can only fine US tech giants because it's good at suffocating its own European companies with some of its members states having one of the highest taxes and subject to the EU's regulations. It's no wonder AI startups like Mistral (France) are so dependent on US VCs and the same is true with Lovable (Sweden) who were able to grow faster than Europe trying to strangle them. Since there are rare startup home-runs…

Remember that the US literally sent members of the CIA to steal a french chip company and it's IP in the late 80's / early 90's.

Does that sound like fair competition?

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#108

Yay, jackpot! We taunted the monkey in the glass box into throwing the first stone. The EU is just itching for any opportunity to get rid of US tech firms because they’re increasingly seen as sovereignty risks. And while the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) appear huge on absolute terms, they are still low enough that US firms voluntarily decide to violate those laws and just pay the fines. The US sees TikTok…

> The EU is just itching for any opportunity to get rid of US tech firms because they’re increasingly seen as sovereignty risks. And while the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) appear huge on absolute terms, they are still low enough that US firms voluntarily decide to violate those laws and just pay the fines. That is not even remotely close to the truth. The EU is not itching to get rid of Microsoft nor Windo…

There wouldn't be as big problem replacing software. It wouldn't take much. But replacing hardware? That is the real problem where you need US (or maybe China, so pick your poison).

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#109

The tariff talk was ostensibly because the EU exported more goods to the US than the US exported to EU. The US exports far more digital services to the EU, though. Understanding those things, it would seem a particularly unwise framing for the US government to focus on EU digital services exports. LLMs are rapidly commoditizing software, and in particular making it far easier to handle the regulatory compliance and r…

A major thing that holds us back and will continue to do so in B2B (coming from someone whose last startup failed): differences in language/customs/needs linked to the multitude of cultures in the region.

We hired someone that could sell in Italian, French, and Spanish. Her profile is fairly rare, given she had a good understanding of the customer. I can't believe our CEO let her go simply because of a 4-days at the office obsession…

LLMs can't really fix this. Even though she could speak Spanish, the culture and customer needs for Spain will be a little different than those for Italy. Traditions will be different. She's a wonderful human being, but imagine a customer in France not liking her “Belgian accent” and tanking a sale… She was really losing motivation because of that. The 2 other people on sales struggled more or less with the same issue.

All hail LLMs, if you want, but Europe's issues are not that easily fixed. We end up obsessing about the wrong stuff, as if compliance and regulation was the Big Problem, instead of a boogeyman that neoliberals love to hate.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#110
post #81
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just a nitpick, shouldn't youtube also be "yes, but not really", since there are plenty of alternatives to hosting video. but none have the reach that youtube has, similar to ads?

I would name PeerTube the project and the various PeerTube instances various organizations are running (like for example https://vhsky.cz/ ) as a good Youtube alternative. Sure, you might not have all the media on one big convenient pile like on Youtube, but that is kinda the point (with no single pile owner there is no single entity that decideds what goes on the pile or not).

This can only be a fair alternative if a single search can transparently query all instances (an implicit requirement for most users), and there's also an easy, instance-transparent, preferably free way to upload content (requirement for most creators). Once one has the question "which instance should I search/create my account on?", it will be considered a failure.
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