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US threatens EU digital services market access

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Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#81

Post by m4rtink »

em-bee wrote: post #53
input_sh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those are products, those are companies that offers 100s of products. The question is not is there as an alternative to Google-as-a-whole, but is there an alternative to Google Search (yes), to Google Analytics (yes), to Gmail (yes), to Google Ads (yes, but not really), to YouTube (no), and to Android (yes, but not really). Having a European mega-company that offers 100s of tightly-integrated products shouldn…

just a nitpick, shouldn't youtube also be "yes, but not really", since there are plenty of alternatives to hosting video. but none have the reach that youtube has, similar to ads?

I would name PeerTube the project and the various PeerTube instances various organizations are running (like for example https://vhsky.cz/) as a good Youtube alternative.

Sure, you might not have all the media on one big convenient pile like on Youtube, but that is kinda the point (with no single pile owner there is no single entity that decideds what goes on the pile or not).

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#83

Post by wrxd »

brador wrote: post #65

EU has the capital but does it have the knowledge workers to build out alternatives?

I don't think that's true. Have a look at the people who are actually working in the US offices of US companies. There are some Americans but you'll also find plenty of Europeans as well as people from all over the world.

Have a look at where US tech companies offices are. You'll find plenty of them in the EU

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#84

Post by kinematikk »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #43

The tariff talk was ostensibly because the EU exported more goods to the US than the US exported to EU. The US exports far more digital services to the EU, though. Understanding those things, it would seem a particularly unwise framing for the US government to focus on EU digital services exports. LLMs are rapidly commoditizing software, and in particular making it far easier to handle the regulatory compliance and r…

Your last sentence is funny as hell because it’s so true

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#85

Post by rdm_blackhole »

fxtentacle wrote: post #10

Yay, jackpot! We taunted the monkey in the glass box into throwing the first stone. The EU is just itching for any opportunity to get rid of US tech firms because they’re increasingly seen as sovereignty risks. And while the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) appear huge on absolute terms, they are still low enough that US firms voluntarily decide to violate those laws and just pay the fines. The US sees TikTok…

> The EU is just itching for any opportunity to get rid of US tech firms because they’re increasingly seen as sovereignty risks. And while the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) appear huge on absolute terms, they are still low enough that US firms voluntarily decide to violate those laws and just pay the fines.

That is not even remotely close to the truth. The EU is not itching to get rid of Microsoft nor Windows nor Google. If these companies left tomorrow, the EU will have enormous problems replacing them if that is even possible in the first place.

The EU countries should have had a homegrown version of each US service up and running and on par with their US counterparts a decade ago, then the EU would have had leverage but as it stands, they have none.

Unless you think that every governmental office will switch to Ubuntu tomorrow morning, in which case I have a bridge to sell you.

Not to mention that the entire EU's messaging needs are met via US companies. Let's see how long the EU can last without WhatsApp, IMessage and Facebook Messenger.

My guess is not long unless you want to use Telegram which was most likely backdoor-ed by the French government not long ago.

This is the problem with the EU as it stands, there is really no mea-culpa from the institutions for their inaction and getting caught with their pants down.

All of this was foreseeable and could have been avoided, yet here we are.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#86

Post by zoobab »

stakhanov wrote: post #16

The E.U. making life difficult for U.S.-based monopolists, and the U.S. making life difficult for E.U.-based monopolists? For a net effect of life being difficult for all monopolists? Well, that sounds like a wonderful idea! I am all for it. Through this model, we might actually enjoy effective antitrust enforcement, and escape regulatory capture! Who would have thought that this day would ever come? Once again, it t…

"effective antitrust enforcement, and escape regulatory capture"

Give me an example where Antitrust was actually breaking any monopoly.

In the EU and the Microsoft antitrust case, the remedy was to give the best poison to the competitors (free software Samba in that case) in that case royalties over patents.

Antitrust don't work, fines are too low, remedies are not working, and the administration is biased and politicized.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#87

Post by zoobab »

jeroenhd wrote: post #12
fxtentacle wrote: post #10

Yay, jackpot! We taunted the monkey in the glass box into throwing the first stone. The EU is just itching for any opportunity to get rid of US tech firms because they’re increasingly seen as sovereignty risks. And while the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) appear huge on absolute terms, they are still low enough that US firms voluntarily decide to violate those laws and just pay the fines. The US sees TikTok…

> the GDPR fines (that this likely refers to) I think the American government is mad at the DMA more than anything. Breaking up the monopolies that are currently firmly held by American tech giants goes directly against the interests of the White House, especially now that they're able to openly bribe the president.

"I think the American government is mad at the DMA"

It's the not the government, it's the large american companies behind it.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#88

Post by lm28469 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #77
lm28469 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't knowledge workers, we have plenty. The problem is that given the choice between being paid $55k for a EU based company and spend half your salary in rent vs making $200k+ working for a US based company most people chose money. Even without relocating, working for a US based company in Europe makes more sense... Working for Dassault or Rheinmetall on high tech military equipment will net you less tha…

A lot of people work comfortably for EU companies. Yes, there’s more money somewhere else in this world, but when your income is good enough other things matter more. I think you are exaggerating the problem. Europe can certainly handle building the core tech stack to achieve sovereignty.

The internship I had half way through my studies for a US based company (10+ years ago) paid more than most tech jobs you can land in Paris with a masters degree (right now)... I think you're underestimating the problem. Tech workers are seen as an expense, not a resource, and certainly not as assets.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#89

Post by expedition32 »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #43

The tariff talk was ostensibly because the EU exported more goods to the US than the US exported to EU. The US exports far more digital services to the EU, though. Understanding those things, it would seem a particularly unwise framing for the US government to focus on EU digital services exports. LLMs are rapidly commoditizing software, and in particular making it far easier to handle the regulatory compliance and r…

You have to understand who Trump's base is. They think factories> liberals in Seattle.

Globalisation has made America the richest country on the planet. The real problem is that the money doesn't reach the "deplorable" population.

But that is an INTERNAL issue that could have easily be solved with voting for Bernie Sanders.

People vote against their own interests is a tale as old as democracy itself.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#90

Post by philipwhiuk »

votepaunchy wrote: post #66
kevin061 wrote: post #17

Please destroy US tech, Ursula.

You are asking to severely damage the economy of the country providing your defense umbrella, when your continent is mired in a 3+ year land war.

The US is the only organisation in NATO to ever invoke Article 5.
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