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US threatens EU digital services market access

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Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#31

Post by input_sh »

shellwizard wrote: post #11
reacharavindh wrote: post #7

Throwing stone from a glass box eh? If I understand correctly, US is by far the largest services exporter to EU… should EU merely apply the same “tariffs” that US might impose on these goods, some healthy European alternatives would finally gain some ground..

What alternatives to Microsoft, Google, IBM or AWS exist in Europe?

None of those are products, those are companies that offers 100s of products.

The question is not is there as an alternative to Google-as-a-whole, but is there an alternative to Google Search (yes), to Google Analytics (yes), to Gmail (yes), to Google Ads (yes, but not really), to YouTube (no), and to Android (yes, but not really).

Having a European mega-company that offers 100s of tightly-integrated products shouldn't be the end goal, that's just swapping one monopoly with another. We need a healthly ecosystem where there are hundreds of separate companies each solving 1-5 use cases.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#32

Post by whazor »

reacharavindh wrote: post #7

Throwing stone from a glass box eh? If I understand correctly, US is by far the largest services exporter to EU… should EU merely apply the same “tariffs” that US might impose on these goods, some healthy European alternatives would finally gain some ground..

I think you can make a bigger list of US firms that are benefiting from EU laws, like Epic Games, Garmin, IBM, Oracle, Microsoft. But these companies are again also benefiting from maybe other American more established and US protected companies.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#33

Post by concinds »

fxtentacle wrote: post #20
jonnybgood wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case for the EU? The EU doesn’t seem to foster an environment for competitive companies that can operate at the necessary scale the above listed can.

LIDL the supermarket chain is German and is running a large cloud operation inside the EU. And OVH from France is also pretty big. You’re correct that few EU companies get as large as US monopolies, but that’s kind of the goal when you want a functioning market.

A "functioning market" doesn't prevent oligopolies. Oligopolies are natural and optimal (desirable) in many industries, if not most. That's where regulations come in.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#34

Post by Tarq0n »

jonnybgood wrote: post #15
nephihaha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these hadn't been allowed to emerge as monopolies we would have a wider selection.

Is that really the case for the EU? The EU doesn’t seem to foster an environment for competitive companies that can operate at the necessary scale the above listed can.

You say that like scale is an inevitability. If Microsoft's offerings were unbundled into lots of smaller interoperable solutions we'd all be better off.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#35

Post by matwood »

nephihaha wrote: post #14
shellwizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternatives to Microsoft, Google, IBM or AWS exist in Europe?

If these hadn't been allowed to emerge as monopolies we would have a wider selection.

Possibly. Until recently, anyone who was in tech wanted to move to the US because there was simply more opportunity. Salaries are higher, chances of making it big are higher, failing is often seen as a positive in the US, etc... The adage that the best place to make money is the US and the best place to spend money is the EU still rings true.

The US become less welcoming to immigrants is a great opportunity for the EU, but it remains to be seen if they will be able to take advantage and overcome the structural differences.

https://www.challenge.org/insights/structural-differences-in...

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#36

Post by jack_tripper »

piva00 wrote: post #25
jonnybgood wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case for the EU? The EU doesn’t seem to foster an environment for competitive companies that can operate at the necessary scale the above listed can.

Mostly an artefact of the non-application of antitrust laws, the US selectively decided to not apply those anymore for the past 30-40 years, corporate consolidation takes hold, companies providing a service grow enormously and are allowed to swallow prominent competitors to stamp them out. The EU has many competitive companies, I think HN is too focused on "tech" as in digital/web stuff and quite blind to other techn…

[dead]

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#37

Post by McDyver »

shellwizard wrote: post #11
reacharavindh wrote: post #7

Throwing stone from a glass box eh? If I understand correctly, US is by far the largest services exporter to EU… should EU merely apply the same “tariffs” that US might impose on these goods, some healthy European alternatives would finally gain some ground..

What alternatives to Microsoft, Google, IBM or AWS exist in Europe?

You're actually making the exact point you want to attack.

That's why Europe needs that push to get their act together and start being self-sufficient, digital services-wise.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#38

Post by ivan_gammel »

fxtentacle wrote: post #20
jonnybgood wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case for the EU? The EU doesn’t seem to foster an environment for competitive companies that can operate at the necessary scale the above listed can.

LIDL the supermarket chain is German and is running a large cloud operation inside the EU. And OVH from France is also pretty big. You’re correct that few EU companies get as large as US monopolies, but that’s kind of the goal when you want a functioning market.

You probably mean Schwarz Gruppe, the owner of Lidl, and their subsidiary StackIT. Yes, they are growing. Schwarz is also building 11B€ AI data center in Lubbenau, so I fully agree with you. We will be fine without American digital services.

Re: US threatens EU digital services market access

#40

Post by wkat4242 »

concinds wrote: post #30
jonnybgood wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case for the EU? The EU doesn’t seem to foster an environment for competitive companies that can operate at the necessary scale the above listed can.

The EU has an extremely fragmented digital internal market, laws that suck for startups in most places, worse capital markets and funding mechanisms (and related laws), and doesn't have a Silicon Valley. It also underinvests in R&D and doesn't have a DARPA. So yes, just tariffing or restricting US tech wouldn't help much. Europe "lost" that race fair and square. It needs to focus on fixing all those things.

On the other hand a lot of these startups and tech companies are a net negative for the world. Externalise problems and pollution, internalise profits. We don't want society to be only decided by those who make the most money. That's why we have those laws.

I personally don't want the EU to become the US. And Investors gambling with other people's money is what gave us the world financial crisis of 2007. No lessons were learned as usual.

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