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Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#161

Post by aleph_minus_one »

spicyusername wrote: post #115

I never understand where these anecdotes come from. I live in a rural Red State, a place you'd expect less reading, and my kids, and many of their friends, read full books all the time and have since they were quite young. The curriculum in our public school regularly requires kids to read full books for class, and the kids you'd expect from the homes you'd expect read plenty. So whatever the problem is, if there eve…

> I live in a rural Red State, a place you'd expect less reading, and my kids, and many of their friends, read full books all the time and have since they were quite young.

> The curriculum in our public school regularly requires kids to read full books for class, and the kids you'd expect from the homes you'd expect read plenty.

Reading the expected books for school is very different from reading a lot privately at home.

I know quite many fellow pupils who read a lot privately, but detested reading the required books for school (they at best got some summaries somewhere, which in my opinion actually prepared you better for the tests since the people who write summaries typically know quite well which parts/topics of the books teachers consider to be important, and thus do quite some explanations on these).

On the other hand, I know fellow pupils who barely read anything in their free time (they had different interests), but for some reason actually liked (and liked reading) the books that you had to read for some classes.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#162

Post by [deleted] »

haizhung wrote: post #150

Im seeing the same in Germany. Here’s an incomplete list of all books that I read as mandatory high school assignments, which I can recall from memory . * Die Vorstadtkrokodile * Faust I * Die verlorene Ehre der Katharina Blum * Antigone * Die Verwandlung * Bahnwärter Thiel * Der Sandmann * Die Räuber * Hamlet * Der Besuch der alten Dame * Im Westen nichts Neues * Unterm Rad * Woyzeck Im probably missing 5 books or s…

[deleted]

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#163

Post by smelendez »

idontwantthis wrote: post #123
spicyusername wrote: post #115

I never understand where these anecdotes come from. I live in a rural Red State, a place you'd expect less reading, and my kids, and many of their friends, read full books all the time and have since they were quite young. The curriculum in our public school regularly requires kids to read full books for class, and the kids you'd expect from the homes you'd expect read plenty. So whatever the problem is, if there eve…

In Clark County high schools in NV, they do not read a single whole book in English classes even in honors.

Is it an aversion to assigning homework?

I remember teachers assigning “read chapters 4-6 by Thursday” and then giving a quiz to make sure people read and remembered the details.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#164

Post by floren »

dooglius wrote: post #156
opello wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was intrigued by the idea that it might be unreasonable for a book to include a glossary or dictionary to explain usages for made up or unfamiliar terms. I like that this list [1] exists because I was struggling to think of such a book. But then I thought about The Lord of the Rings, and it even includes an index of terms among its appendices, which is something I remember using to revisit parts of the story when I…

I think you are missing the broader point: why should one read things occurring in an alien context to begin with? It's not as if there is a dearth of more modern works. It seems like the main function of selecting older works is to make it artificially harder for students to read.

> why should one read things occurring in an alien context to begin with?

Are you people for real?

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#165

Post by pavel_lishin »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #121
squigz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? If people enjoy it, let them enjoy it. I've read a few YA novels as an adult that I enjoyed, even though I regularly read more complex stuff. Most people, for most of history, have only ever enjoyed what might be considered "low quality" entertainment - pulp fiction, shitty plays, etc. > real novel that isn't so bounded by tropes or genre limits. Interestingly, even discounting YA and other stuff like that…

>Who cares? I do? Why would I want my kids to be consuming crap when they could be engaging with great works and high art?

What if that's not the choice? What if the choice is "engage with art they enjoy and appreciate, or not at all"?

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#166

Post by techblueberry »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #134
techblueberry wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious - do you think you’re an independent thinker? Do you think it’s a competitive advantage? What does thinking differently mean? It seems like a thing people say because it sounds good without really interrogating it. I objectively find myself to be an independent thinker, and I mostly find it distracting. I could be much more functional to society/work/relationships if I spent more time thinking about the k…

I think I'm an independent thinker. One symptom is that I repeatedly find myself observing that other people do things because they're copying other people. This is one symptom, but there's more. > Do you think it’s a competitive advantage > I could be much more functional to society/work/relationships > most successful people in society, are successful _because_ they have mainstream thought patterns Don't care, I'm…

This sounds like a very common sort of misanthropic attitude I see littered around the web.

You know how they say - like in making music - in order to break the rules you have understand them?

I don’t like the take directly, but as a person who makes music, what I realize, and I think this is what they meant, it if you don’t study music, most people are likely to naturally slide into the most simplistic forms of it, because that’s what naturally sounds good, so you’re like naturally more inclined to recreate a 1 4 5 progression, rather than Mozart.

Do you think that you may have accidentally slid into this position, or sort of thinking exactly like a like blase’ counter cultural sameness, copying all the self-defined independent thinkers?, or do you think you have some insight into what makes your perspective unique and clearly in some way spiritually valuable to you?

I would be concerned that purely “thinking about it on your own” would lead to a really narrow set of beliefs. Like no offense, but your answer is a carbon copy of “disaffected youth” I’ve both exhibited and seen exhibited my whole life, with maybe a little less bite, so I’m guessing your not that young. But I’m often wrong.

But I am genuinely curious, what do you think makes you an independent thinker? And what purpose does that serve you?

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#167

Post by Natsu »

Telaneo wrote: post #64
Natsu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you write in cursive? Anyone using paper + pen? Writing a letter or thank you note? You know, stuff only people who grew up before the internet was popular still do.

If it's something I want people to read, I'd never dare write it in cursive, because if I did, I wouldn't count on them being able to read it. I'll write in (not great) cursive for myself, but for other people? Writing in block or print is basically an accessibility feature. Even if my cursive was perfect, plenty of people would not be able to read it.

I grew up in a world where everyone knew cursive, and until this sort of discussion became popular in recent years, it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me that there were many people who didn't know. But I guess they had to cut some things out of the curriculum and it's not as useful as it used to be.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#168

Post by onraglanroad »

barbazoo wrote: post #136
tyleo wrote: post #40

Comments here are very strange, “Reading books should go the way of cursive! Education is more like childcare anyways.” It’s bizarre stuff to say. What would you have the education system do? Put iPads in front of kids all day?

Let the market solve it. If the market requires educated adults the market will create that environment or something, answer is probably private schools. I assume they’d say something like that.

I think you're going to attract downvotes from people who just read your first sentence and assume that's the actual gist of your post.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#169

Post by BigGreenJorts »

Amezarak wrote: post #143
delichon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fanfic reading is not like novel reading in that you don't need to really understand new, unfamiliar characters though. So the Lord of the Rings series counts as one book? I'd believe diminishing returns, but not one and done. Also, I thought that Yudkowsky's HPMOR fanfic had more interesting ideas than the whole Rowling series, which I like a lot.

Yes, pedantically, and as mentioned in the Notes in the Text in most editions, the Lord of the Rings is a single book sometimes published in three volumes.

Yeah I thought it was such a funny example yo pick out bc, yes it is!

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#170

Post by Pikamander2 »

skeptrune wrote: post #78

All of the literature we recommend in school is outdated, so it makes sense to me that kids would not want to read them. More school districts should experiment with contemporary novels that make sense in a modern context.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

While "the classics" may have some educational and cultural value, many of them came off as dry and pretentious.

There are countless anecdotes online of people who loved to read books as a kid but thoroughly hated reading by the end of high school or college, which is a terrible outcome.

I think that English classes in general are far too prescriptive and narrow in what they assign students to read, particularly when it comes to fiction. They seem to adopt the attitude of "These books are well-written classics. You have to read them, and if you don't enjoy them then there's something wrong with you."

Forcing students to read specific boring material might make sense in other classes like History or Science where there are very specific facts that they need to remember, but the required reading portion of English classes doesn't need to be handled in such a rigid way.

I suspect that we would end up with far better results if we gave students a curated list of popular books and had them pick out their favorites to read rather than just telling them to go read Ethan Frome and write an essay on loneliness afterwards.

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