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Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

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Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#81

Post by opello »

bgbntty2 wrote: post #72
floren wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the stories and themes were outdated and didn't have enough context to make them understandable. Some books even used outdated words and phrases. no cap Mr Darcy ur parties are bussin fr fr

I should've used "archaic" instead of "outdated". As in, "incomprehensible to someone speaking proper modern $language". Without a dictionary, a normal student couldn't understand what was being said in many sentences throughout the book. Some books actually had a dictionary in the end, but not for all the archaic words and phrases.

I was intrigued by the idea that it might be unreasonable for a book to include a glossary or dictionary to explain usages for made up or unfamiliar terms. I like that this list [1] exists because I was struggling to think of such a book. But then I thought about The Lord of the Rings, and it even includes an index of terms among its appendices, which is something I remember using to revisit parts of the story when I first read it. Another book with a glossary of terms is Dune, which I found fun and reasonable to avoid trying to explain hierarchy where doing so would break the narrative flow. But maybe that just means it's not as cleverly constructed or organized as it could have been--but the trade-off has to be how to engage a wide selection of readers...

Is the complaint about the dictionary at the end because it wasn't comprehensive? I'm unreasonably curious about the book and which phrases were included and which were not.

I think all written works occur in a context that should be taken into account when thinking critically about them. That context is temporal and linguistic and is more apparent when you consider something like Beowulf in Old English or The Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it requires either a modern reinterpretation or consideration given to the sociolinguistic context in which it was written.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/180823.Novels_with_Gloss...

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#82

Post by inemesitaffia »

oxag3n wrote: post #77

Kids are either into reading or not. There's a critical mass when kids read because they like it, to the point where I need to remind them to read less.

Pretty much every one in the selective school I went to read for fun.

Even the "troublesome" ones.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#83

Post by gambiting »

cogman10 wrote: post #63
gambiting wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It's print. With upper and lowercase letters. So like.......not linking the letters together then? Doesn't that just actually take more effort than just writing cursive? And is slower? >>But of course this is HN where most people are technical. For sure, and as a professional programmer I keep a notebook with hand written notes - the fact that I have a keyboard and multiple monitors in front of me doesn't change th…

> not linking the letters together then? Correct. > Doesn't that just actually take more effort than just writing cursive? And is slower? Probably yes to both counts. However, when I'm handwriting I'm generally not in a position where speed or effort is the most important thing. To me, it's not much more effort to print and I get the added bonus of legibility. When I write cursive, it can be hard for me to understand…

>>Consider this, do you use shorthand?

I have no idea how to write shorthand. I assume you know how to write cursive, so no I don't think the reasons are the same.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#84

Post by eimrine »

bgbntty2 wrote: post #59
stevewodil wrote: post #4

I don’t know if this matters much. When I was in school it was rare to actually read a book assignment anyways, and I’m sure with LLMs now it’s less. I’ve started to have a positive association with reading only in the last few years, I wish schools didn’t force books onto children and make them think they hate reading for their whole lives.

I think school ruined fiction books for me. I had to read long boring books about stories that didn't interest me, with useless sentences describing what the scene looked like or what someone had for dinner. Most of the stories and themes were outdated and didn't have enough context to make them understandable. Some books even used outdated words and phrases. Maybe if I wasn't forced to read a book in an outdated lan…

> Being forced to read and memorize poetry was the absolute shit.

Yes and no. I used to start reading at 4 years old, but I forcedly used to memorize some rhymes at 3 years old. Most folk don't believe it is possible to read so early (though Eliezer Yudkowsky has reported about similar age). But my point is - how would I learn reading so early without that poetry?

I don't really like poetry exactly as rest of the fiction genre. And I am still sure it is not shit even for those who are struggling of doing that. I consider poetry exercises as sport exercises: today you claim that some specific muscle is not important for you, but tomorrow you get some injury which happened because of some weak muscle.

But you have also said one important word - propaganda. This is what really shitting any education and propaganda seems like the monster from the Nitzsche's quote "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster".

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#85

Post by eimrine »

frompdx wrote: post #58

When I was in high-school 20 plus years ago excerpt based reading assignments were fairly common in non-honors/advanced placement classes. Except there were whole textbooks full of excerpt based assignments instead of computer software for this purpose. Anecdotally I took honors and AP English and those classes destroyed my desire to read for years. I only read a few of the assigned books cover to cover because they…

> Sure there are lots of brainrot distractions available to kids today

Take apart the distractions per se, how is it possible to read book for a kid in 2025 at all? Reading thick books requires having some device with no distructions. In my young ages all computers and all smartphones used to have no distructions, but now all computers (except some Linux distros) used to be bombarded with distructions in such a way that I can not read a book on any proprietary OS without getting some notification about anti-virus software or some updates or a need to restart, or just some events happening on the Internets.

My point is not just that distractions distract people, but distructions have become inevitable on almost any modern device able to render PDF with formulas.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#87

Post by optionalsquid »

komali2 wrote: post #75
thrwaway55 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time?

To the hundred millisecond?

You could also include day, month, year, and how close we are to destroying the world [1].

[1] https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#89

Post by epolanski »

eimrine wrote: post #86
tomcam wrote: post #38

To me the ability to read a whole book is a competitive advantage in the job market.

For what industries?

Any job position requiring intelligence and nuance which unavoidably stems from informing yourself.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#90

Post by miningape »

floren wrote: post #68
bgbntty2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think school ruined fiction books for me. I had to read long boring books about stories that didn't interest me, with useless sentences describing what the scene looked like or what someone had for dinner. Most of the stories and themes were outdated and didn't have enough context to make them understandable. Some books even used outdated words and phrases. Maybe if I wasn't forced to read a book in an outdated lan…

> Most of the stories and themes were outdated and didn't have enough context to make them understandable. Some books even used outdated words and phrases. no cap Mr Darcy ur parties are bussin fr fr

Honestly, I'd gladly pay for and read a version of pride and prejudice rewritten in gen Z slang
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