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The Patent, Used as a Sword

nytimes.com

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#31
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't be reconciled: patents bind another human down from thinking and acting and trading with his fellow human beings. There's no way to justify that; it's blatantly immoral.

Don't be so dramatic. By and large what patents prevent is copying: taking someone's ideas and passing them off as your own. Most people consider this immoral too. Restrictions on unfair competition are literally hundreds of years old--it's not a recent invention. E.g. one of Samsung's biggest problems in the recent patent dispute with Apple was that they were clearly blatantly copying Apple's designs.

There are other ways than patents to get rewards for your work, but patents are a non-starter in principle. Just because you thought of something first does not give you a right to stop someone else from thinking of it second. It's really very simple.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#32
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope people in our industry can stop the useless arguments of "end all patents!" Actually, it's failing to stand for a principle that leads to this constant slide downward. Sure, fight this particular battle, but as you're doing so, don't forget about the war.

+1 because I agree. Though, how many more battles must we win? Maybe it's this lightspeed cultural advancement that makes it all seem so drawn out, but it sure feels like nothing is or has changed for the long term better.

I think nothing less than a revolution in the way humans think is going to solve these problems. I mean, science solves problems better than witchcraft for a reason. Mankind is still using the equivalent of witchcraft in the legal realm.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#33
post #29
post #12

This article briefly touches upon first to file. I think it's clear that the change to first to file will result in the greatest threat to open innovation we have ever seen in our lives. Think about it -- suddenly you will have swarms of lawyers and executives at pharmaceutical companies paying visits to research labs, and you'll have people from large software companies forwarding ideas posted on open source develop…

> It won't be safe to suggest ideas openly anymore. It won't be safe to talk about "what if" or "have you considered" or "someone should really." We are going to see a flood of really bad patents based on other people's ideas -- and that's exactly what our lawmakers have provided to their friends in large businesses. That's not how first to file works. It just changes is what happens if two or more otherwise eligible…

It's not the discussions around "I came up with an idea" that are at risk here -- it's the discussions that may precipitate ideas that might be patentable. Those are far more nuanced, and harder to present as evidence of invention, or obviousness.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#34
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so dramatic. By and large what patents prevent is copying: taking someone's ideas and passing them off as your own. Most people consider this immoral too. Restrictions on unfair competition are literally hundreds of years old--it's not a recent invention. E.g. one of Samsung's biggest problems in the recent patent dispute with Apple was that they were clearly blatantly copying Apple's designs.

There are other ways than patents to get rewards for your work, but patents are a non-starter in principle. Just because you thought of something first does not give you a right to stop someone else from thinking of it second. It's really very simple.

By and large, patents aren't intended for situations where it's likely that two people would think of the same design within the patent term. It's designed to address the situation where I spend time and money researching something, and someone else comes along and takes the results of that research and sells a competing product, undercutting me on price because he never had to invest that time or money.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#35
post #33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It won't be safe to suggest ideas openly anymore. It won't be safe to talk about "what if" or "have you considered" or "someone should really." We are going to see a flood of really bad patents based on other people's ideas -- and that's exactly what our lawmakers have provided to their friends in large businesses. That's not how first to file works. It just changes is what happens if two or more otherwise eligible…

It's not the discussions around "I came up with an idea" that are at risk here -- it's the discussions that may precipitate ideas that might be patentable. Those are far more nuanced, and harder to present as evidence of invention, or obviousness.

So? Nothing changes with regard to those discussions due to first to file vs. first to invent.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#36
post #12

This article briefly touches upon first to file. I think it's clear that the change to first to file will result in the greatest threat to open innovation we have ever seen in our lives. Think about it -- suddenly you will have swarms of lawyers and executives at pharmaceutical companies paying visits to research labs, and you'll have people from large software companies forwarding ideas posted on open source develop…

First-to-file is basically meant to get rid of "interference" lawsuits. And, in general, it's not the apocalypse you might expect because prior art can still invalidate a patent. The USA is basically on its own with first-to-invent. Everyone else is on first-to-file. And generally speaking, it works pretty well. There are absolutely anomalies, but there are mechanisms to deal with them. The payoff is a simply abolish…

Other countries force the loser in a lawsuit to cover the costs. Perhaps that's why they don't have so many companies using patents that shouldn't have been issued in the first place.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 because I agree. Though, how many more battles must we win? Maybe it's this lightspeed cultural advancement that makes it all seem so drawn out, but it sure feels like nothing is or has changed for the long term better.

I think nothing less than a revolution in the way humans think is going to solve these problems. I mean, science solves problems better than witchcraft for a reason. Mankind is still using the equivalent of witchcraft in the legal realm.

Complete with arcane mutterings. I know that law has a lot of very specific terms, but is encoding them in Latin necessary?

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#38
post #4

So, if a person wants to start a company, how can he make sure it's not breaking any patent that could cost him money and a legal mess later?, I suppose a few hours of investigation previous starting up is not enough...

Absolutely not. First, I have heard anecdotes about patents for (device and method for) transferring data over a network. Second, if you know about a patent you are now wilfully infringing and will get triple damages in court.

But don't worry, the patent trolls only want income, so they'll demand you license their patent at a price carefully calculated to be your revenue minus your costs.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#39
I would argue this article only slightly missed it's mark: patents are not swords. Patents are nuclear weapons, and all parties in tech have been slowly amassing an arsenal of thousands of them. Some of these warheads are duds, but it still costs money to deflect the bomb away from you to determine that. Others have small tactical explosions. But there are some which are fusion bombs, some are the Tsar Bomba of patents.

You don't argue with a man with numerous atomic weapons, even if some of them might be duds. You fold to his demands. So large companies seek to shut down or absorb threats to their empires, preventing any new superpowers from rising through acquisitions and cross-licensing.

This leads to an interesting and uneasy detente, roughly comparable to the posturing of countries during the cold war.

Between themselves, the superpowers have had to play a careful game of balance. They know that to actually sue would mean a series of counterattacks. Lobbing a single missile might mean that all silos will launch from the enemy camp. The cost of defending and waging multiple simultaneous lawsuits against multiple multi-billion lawsuits has meant that there is very much a state of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) present in the industry.

When Steve Jobs said that he was "willing to go thermonuclear on this" he wasn't being hyperbolic. Apple went from a Cold War to a hot war. Much like the real Cold War, Apple isn't directly attacking Google yet. They are having a war by proxy with Samsung and other Android device manufacturers first. But they are also snubbing Google in a variety of ways with iOS 6. Time will tell if Google and Apple will engage in a dazzling display that will embarrass my WarGames inspired copy of Defcon.

The only winning move is not to play at a society level, by reforming patents.

Re: The Patent, Used as a Sword

#40

"The suit had cost $3 million, and the financial damage was done." This is the problem. In all other countries (except Great Britain, AFAIK) the loser pays all costs (including the public cost of the trial and the opposing party's legal fees). The loser-pays system has three effects: 1. No frivolous lawsuits. Cost of losing is high. 2. The defending party will defend vigorously if it believes itself to be in the righ…

Loser-pays is a non-starter in a country like the US that uses private civil litigation to enforce everything from workplace racial discrimination laws to environmental regulation.

Honestly, if you study the system a little bit, at least in the US, the problem isn't too much litigation, it's too little litigation. E.g. people complain about all the medical malpractice suits, but a Harvard Medical School study a few years ago suggested that far more people with meritorious claims failed to file suit than the number of people with unmeritorious claims who did file suit. There are tons of meritorious environmental law suits that don't get filed because polluted communities either don't realize they can sue or don't want to take on a big corporation.

"Loser pays" really favors big companies and the status quo, and in the absence of a big pro-active government to vindicate peoples' rights really results in those big companies trampling on those rights.

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