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ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

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Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#71

Post by nessus42 »

Gigablah wrote: post #70
nessus42 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but Apple laptops only seem to excel on visual appeal (and this is a recent phenomenon - just look at the first PowerBook G4s). Design has to be functional, and this is where Apple always makes sacrifices. I don't know what you are talking about--you are WAY overstating your case. My 11-inch MacBook Air is by the far the most ergonomic and pleasant-to-use laptop computer I have ever owned. The keyboard on it is by…

Have you used a pre-2011 Macbook? My 2010 MBP has sharp edges, so they leave marks on my forearms. Not very comfortable. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2471321 The Magic Mouse is even less comfortable. I don't know how they expect people to hold that for any significant period.

On your forearms? You should not be pressing your forearms onto anything when you type or you'll give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome. Take it from one who knows! If the sharp edges discourage you from doing this, then more power to sharp edges!

I have not used a pre-2011 Macbook, though I did have a 2006 or so PowerBook. It was fine. My only complaint was that it get too hot to use with bare legs. This is one of the reasons that Apple switched from the PowerPC to Intel.

I haven't used a Magic Mouse. The idea of mouse with a touch-sensitive top seems like a great idea. I don't know how it works out in reality. I use a Cyborg R.A.T. 9 mouse. I love it. I also sometimes use an Apple Magic Trackpad, and I think that it is fantastic.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#72

Post by jamesbritt »

geoka9 wrote: post #41
JimmyL wrote: post #31

In an office full of Retina MacBooks, I love my ThinkPad X220 (and this is my fourth ThinkPad in a row, spanning both Lenovo and IBM eras). It's not a flashy machine, but it's got a bunch of non-mainstream features that are devoted to getting things done, at which they excel: - Nub pointer? I love it. Full mouse control without moving my hands significantly away from where they were on the keyboard anyways. My X220 h…

Another happy ThinkPad user here :) I agree with all your points. The bricks are pretty much universally interchangeable, except for W models (powerful workstation series, they have a large heavy brick with a higher current rating, which you cannot use with other series). Repair manuals are fantastic. Two weeks ago the fan in my mother's T500 has become noisy. The laptop had been running non-stop for 3 years and the…

I run Ubuntu on my W500 and you can toggle the trackpad from the commandline. I have it off by default but should I need it I can easily turn it on.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#73

Post by linuxhansl »

paulgb wrote: post #45
linuxhansl wrote: post #7

I have privately been using ThinkPads exclusively for many years now. These are the best laptops I ever used (and I am being supplied with work laptops that ranged from MacBook to Dells). The part I relate the most with in the presentation is that ThinkPads are not trendy or flashy. No they are not, they are not gadgets or things you show off, they are functional tools that just work.

The one thing I don't like about ThinkPad is that like pretty much every PC maker they insist on bundling their own software (in their case, ThinkVantage). I wish PC makers would start shipping PCs with Windows, any necessary hardware drivers, and nothing else. This, more than anything, is what makes me dread buying another PC.

I agree. I tried to multiple times to purchase ThinkPads without the bundled software (I use Linux). But it is not an option.

This in fact is the only reason why I look at other offers at all. Every time I need a new laptop I re-check whether I get a ThinkPad without Windows, then I look around for other offerings that do not bundle useless software; so far the ThinkPads have just been better.

First thing I do is wiping the Windows and "factory" partitions and install Linux.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#74

Post by Gigablah »

nessus42 wrote: post #71
Gigablah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used a pre-2011 Macbook? My 2010 MBP has sharp edges, so they leave marks on my forearms. Not very comfortable. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2471321 The Magic Mouse is even less comfortable. I don't know how they expect people to hold that for any significant period.

On your forearms? You should not be pressing your forearms onto anything when you type or you'll give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome. Take it from one who knows! If the sharp edges discourage you from doing this, then more power to sharp edges! I have not used a pre-2011 Macbook, though I did have a 2006 or so PowerBook. It was fine. My only complaint was that it get too hot to use with bare legs. This is one of the…

Yeah, the touch-sensitive top of the Magic Mouse is its main selling point. But that's all ruined by, again, the sharp edges. You can't tell me not to press my palm and fingers onto the mouse :)

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#75

Post by Zak »

nessus42 wrote: post #71
Gigablah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used a pre-2011 Macbook? My 2010 MBP has sharp edges, so they leave marks on my forearms. Not very comfortable. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2471321 The Magic Mouse is even less comfortable. I don't know how they expect people to hold that for any significant period.

On your forearms? You should not be pressing your forearms onto anything when you type or you'll give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome. Take it from one who knows! If the sharp edges discourage you from doing this, then more power to sharp edges! I have not used a pre-2011 Macbook, though I did have a 2006 or so PowerBook. It was fine. My only complaint was that it get too hot to use with bare legs. This is one of the…

This is one of the reasons that Apple switched from the PowerPC to Intel.

After a bit of browsing on Wikipedia and Freescale product pages, it appears to me that the mobile G4 chips typically used under 20 watts and had TDPs around 30. That's in line with (or below) the standard-power Intel chips found in the Macbook Pro from its introduction to current Ivy Bridge models.

There was also a low-power G5 processor that could, in theory have powered a laptop. Apple didn't go that route because it wasn't substantially (if any) faster than the G4, there wasn't a suitable northbridge, and the G5's idle power consumption was too high.

It appears Apple switched to Intel because there wasn't a suitable upgrade path for its laptops, not because then-current models consumed too much power or generated too much heat.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#76

Post by Zak »

I'm typing this on a T400 because my usual T61/T60 hybrid has a cracked GPU BGA and I don't have a torch or a heat gun.

Comparing and contrasting the two machines, it's shocking what a step backwards in design the T400 is.

I think everyone knows about the terrible screen already, and I'd cut Lenovo some slack but for the fact that when IBM needed better screens, they founded IDTech as a joint venture with Chi Mei. Lenovo could at least push its suppliers around a bit; I think they have the volume for it.

The audio ports of the T400 are on the front, rather than the side. This isn't much of a problem at a desk, but using it as a laptop, it means headphone plugs often interfere with the user's body or clothing. It's especially bad using the machine in a reclined position. I'd look for a pcmcia sound card or bluetooth headphones if I had to use this machine for long.

The machine is bulky for the screen size. There's nearly an inch of bezel around the left, top and bottom of the screen. The bottom seems a bit reasonable; the inverter for the backlight has to go somewhere, and placing the screen too low puts the user's hands in front of the screen in some working positions. I see no excuse for the rest of it; the 14" 4:3 T61 had the same keyboard and much less wasted space.

The USB ports are vertical. I currently have a USB 3G stick inserted, and I can't set the machine on a flat surface without risking damage because it protrudes below the base of the laptop. It's not an unusually large 3G stick; even some flash drives have this problem.

I haven't spent any time with the newest Thinkpads, but models from a couple generations ago are shockingly worse than their immediate predecessors. Incidentally, it seems to have happened about the time they dropped the IBM branding, though Lenovo owned the Thinkpad division for several generations prior to that.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#77

Post by stan_rogers »

epaik wrote: post #53
stan_rogers wrote: post #5

Well, that was a horrible experience. Sure, my connection is unforgivably slow, but a long player download (in my case, about four minutes) followed by a long per-page content download (with no apparent prefetch) means that I didn't get very far before bailing. Oh, and none of the usual keyboard navigation (arrows) work. There are a lot of ways to present something like this that work ; this doesn't, particularly.

On the other end of the spectrum, I thought the presentation was impressive. I have a typical broadband connection, and I thought it worked just fine. The loading time seemed instantaneous. I actually appreciate that modern websites are increasingly being designed for higher standards of internet bandwidth/connectivity. It's not that I think bandwidth isn't precious, but when websites can deliver beautiful content at…

Actually, that's what was passing for 3G at the time (it's not always rock-solid, and one doesn't have private towers). It doesn't take a lot of stuttering to make a site like that fail. Beauty and responsiveness are not mutually exclusive, and none of the content I saw warranted a player -- garden-variety HTML and CSS would have done as well.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#78

Post by gmt2027 »

jseliger wrote: post #65
JimmyL wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still get IPS panels, you've just got to pay the extra $50 to get the "enhanced" screen (and they're not available on all models). I'm with you about being less than thrilled with the transition to 16:9 displays, though.

>I'm with you about being less than thrilled with the transition to 16:9 displays, though. Interestingly enough, Lenovo is aware of the problem; I remember reading a blog post a while ago in which someone from Lenovo said the problem is with volume: since the vast majority of uses for displays are now 16:9, it's more expensive to get square-er displays. The person speculated that, if they had 10,000 paid pre-orders o…

Here you go

http://blog.lenovo.com/perspectives/display-ratio-change-aga...

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#79

Post by rogerbinns »

JimmyL wrote: post #40
rogerbinns wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one place things have gone downhill is screens. Thankfully you can still get matte screens rather than ones that double as mirrors. But Lenovo has gone 16:9 losing lots of vertical pixels - note how workflow is vertical (coding, documents) so this is a serious productivity killer. They also use large bezels meaning the laptops are larger than they need to be. And they used to be IPS giving excellent visual qualit…

You can still get IPS panels, you've just got to pay the extra $50 to get the "enhanced" screen (and they're not available on all models). I'm with you about being less than thrilled with the transition to 16:9 displays, though.

The IPS screens are not available on most models and definitely not on the mainstream Thinkpad models (T430, T430s, T530).

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#80

Post by kabdib »

silentOpen wrote: post #35
dfc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many thinkpads have you purchased recently? Multiple orders stuck for months? Granted I have only had 3 thinkpads in 8 years but I have never had any problems.

Just got my T430s 6 weeks after ordering. Lenovo charged and uncharged my debit card and revised their shipping estimate 5+ times. 5 days before receiving the machine, I received an email telling me that federal regulations did not permit them to continue to keep the order 'pending' and that if I did not respond and waive my rights under these regulations, they would cancel my order for me. I did not respond. They ha…

T61: Died one week out of warranty. Lenovo later did a recall and out-of-warranty repair of a design flaw, but forgot to tell us before the recall window closed.

T420: Weeks on order, canceled, resurrected, re-canceled, repeat. Took about three months for delivery.

T420: Overheated and died. Fixed under warranty.

X100e: Runs very, very hot. Expecting this to die soon.

Lesson: Get the warranty or you'll be sorry.

Another lesson: Given the cost of the warranty, there are better machines out there.

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