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ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

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Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#51

Post by nessus42 »

sedachv wrote: post #36
acabal wrote: post #6

I can't believe I'm reading an article touting the design smarts of the Thinkpad designers... honestly I've always thought that the standard black Thinkpads were unspeakably ugly. And I'm not even a design snob. Usable yes, but aesthetic? No way.

You're confusing design with visual appeal. Steve Jobs loved to rant about design and longetivity, but Apple laptops only seem to excel on visual appeal (and this is a recent phenomenon - just look at the first PowerBook G4s). Design has to be functional, and this is where Apple always makes sacrifices. Bringing chiclet-style keyboards back into vogue (to the point where even Lenovo now puts them on Thinkpads) shows…

> but Apple laptops only seem to excel on visual appeal (and this is a recent phenomenon - just look at the first PowerBook G4s). Design has to be functional, and this is where Apple always makes sacrifices.

I don't know what you are talking about--you are WAY overstating your case. My 11-inch MacBook Air is by the far the most ergonomic and pleasant-to-use laptop computer I have ever owned. The keyboard on it is by far the best laptop keyboard I have ever used, and the trackpad is revolutionarily wonderful compared to any other trackpad I have ever used.

That being said, I do prefer Thinkpad-style nubs to trackpads. Also, I find Thinkpads to be beautiful, not ugly. Also, I would agree that Apple does at times make unfortunate ergonomic decisions, like the lamentable and fortunately short-lived round mouse of a decade ago, and Apple's current laptop-style keyboard for desktop computers is a bit questionable. This doesn't bother me, personally, as I use a Kinesis keyboard anyway. Also, since Apple's laptop keyboards are so good, I think they actually might be better than most desktop keyboards anyway.

I don't find Apple to be any worse in the regard of form-over-function than another other company. The ergonomic improvements that they've brought in recent years far offset any ergonomic harm that they have done. One thing that Apple did get right with it's desktop keyboard is a return to small keyboards rather than the monstrosities that the industry has been foisting on us for the last few decades. The current small Apple keyboards remind me of "Happy Hacking" keyboards, which are the way that keyboards should be.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#52

Post by mdkess »

JimmyL wrote: post #31

In an office full of Retina MacBooks, I love my ThinkPad X220 (and this is my fourth ThinkPad in a row, spanning both Lenovo and IBM eras). It's not a flashy machine, but it's got a bunch of non-mainstream features that are devoted to getting things done, at which they excel: - Nub pointer? I love it. Full mouse control without moving my hands significantly away from where they were on the keyboard anyways. My X220 h…

I have a ThinkPad (T420) too, I love it. I agree with everything that you said - nobody else comes close. Plus, their keyboards are by far the nicest laptop keyboards out there. The X220 is in my mind the perfect portable laptop... except, like every Lenovo laptop I've used, it has an absolutely terrible screen. It drives me nuts, because they come so close, and yet still miss by so much. I mean, I'm not expecting a Retina display here, but if Asus can put a 1920x1080 display on their $1000 Zenbooks, would it be too much to ask for Lenovo to put a 1600x900 panel on the X220?

My laptop - the T420 has a 1600x900 panel on it, but colors change at every angle, and I find myself constantly having to adjust it to get the angle just perfect. And even then, it's fuzzy.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#53

Post by epaik »

stan_rogers wrote: post #5

Well, that was a horrible experience. Sure, my connection is unforgivably slow, but a long player download (in my case, about four minutes) followed by a long per-page content download (with no apparent prefetch) means that I didn't get very far before bailing. Oh, and none of the usual keyboard navigation (arrows) work. There are a lot of ways to present something like this that work ; this doesn't, particularly.

On the other end of the spectrum, I thought the presentation was impressive. I have a typical broadband connection, and I thought it worked just fine. The loading time seemed instantaneous.

I actually appreciate that modern websites are increasingly being designed for higher standards of internet bandwidth/connectivity. It's not that I think bandwidth isn't precious, but when websites can deliver beautiful content at the cost of an extra 10th of a second of loading time on a modern connection, I think it's worth it.

A four minute download time on your part implies you have some kind of dial-up connection, is there a reason why you haven't upgraded to a faster service?

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#54

Post by zerostar07 »

JimmyL wrote: post #31

In an office full of Retina MacBooks, I love my ThinkPad X220 (and this is my fourth ThinkPad in a row, spanning both Lenovo and IBM eras). It's not a flashy machine, but it's got a bunch of non-mainstream features that are devoted to getting things done, at which they excel: - Nub pointer? I love it. Full mouse control without moving my hands significantly away from where they were on the keyboard anyways. My X220 h…

That little machine has replaced everything for me, giving me the benefit of working in the same machine without interruptions when moving from place to place. I use it in 2 workplaces with docking stations. Love the long battery life too which can make it to 8-9 hours of use, but the screen is small and has some aftereffect issues.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#55

Post by johnrgrace »

kabdib wrote: post #24

Thinkpads /were/ great. They took a serious quality dive several years ago, and I've had a number of bad problems with customer service (e.g., orders "stuck" for months, miscommunicaton of warranty issues), and now I won't recommend them. My guess is that when things go great, you'll be fine, but the moment you need something out of the ordinary then Lenovo will be just as bad as Dell.

I just bought a Thinkpad x220, slightly dated but for $450 a great price/performance ratio when Lenovo was clearing out their refurbs. While I've had it for about a week, the build quality of this machine is simply great. I've seen, and been given from corporate IT, their $4-500 new laptops and for the price they're good but they aren't perfect. Lenovo's top end series like the X are quality machines.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#56

Post by clhodapp »

JimmyL wrote: post #44
arlog wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making MBP vs. ThinkPad comparison, the screen is a complete game-changer. The MBP screen is in an entirely different league.

I'm with you that the screen on a Retina MBP is a leap ahead, but I don't think I'd call it a game-changer. For one, I do 80% of extended work sessions when I'm at one of two desks. At both those desks, I've got an aforementioned docking station sitting there, and plugged into each docking station is a pair of beautiful Dell 24" IPS panels. That's more screen real estate, and in a more organized and usable way, that…

I won't argue practicality or usability (a dual-monitor setup has distinct benefits, as does an increased physical area), but my computation says: (2,880 x 1,800 = 5,184,000) > (2 x 1,1920 x 1,200 = 4,608,000)

Of course, you have to be crazy enough to run the MacBook at its native resolution without scaling to reap this benefit (I am crazy in this way).

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#57

Post by ygra »

paulgb wrote: post #45
linuxhansl wrote: post #7

I have privately been using ThinkPads exclusively for many years now. These are the best laptops I ever used (and I am being supplied with work laptops that ranged from MacBook to Dells). The part I relate the most with in the presentation is that ThinkPads are not trendy or flashy. No they are not, they are not gadgets or things you show off, they are functional tools that just work.

The one thing I don't like about ThinkPad is that like pretty much every PC maker they insist on bundling their own software (in their case, ThinkVantage). I wish PC makers would start shipping PCs with Windows, any necessary hardware drivers, and nothing else. This, more than anything, is what makes me dread buying another PC.

In the case of the ThinkPad bundled software stuff it's also that they seem to look unchanged since the Windows 95 era or so. Nothing terribly wrong with carrying on with a brand and look, but to me the Windows built-in controls for Wifi, etc. are far more usable than the strange bundled software (which may have had its place up until Windows XP got native Wifi support, I guess).

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#58

Post by [deleted] »

mdkess wrote: post #52
JimmyL wrote: post #31

In an office full of Retina MacBooks, I love my ThinkPad X220 (and this is my fourth ThinkPad in a row, spanning both Lenovo and IBM eras). It's not a flashy machine, but it's got a bunch of non-mainstream features that are devoted to getting things done, at which they excel: - Nub pointer? I love it. Full mouse control without moving my hands significantly away from where they were on the keyboard anyways. My X220 h…

I have a ThinkPad (T420) too, I love it. I agree with everything that you said - nobody else comes close. Plus, their keyboards are by far the nicest laptop keyboards out there. The X220 is in my mind the perfect portable laptop... except, like every Lenovo laptop I've used, it has an absolutely terrible screen. It drives me nuts, because they come so close, and yet still miss by so much. I mean, I'm not expecting a…

[deleted]

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#59

Post by mkhattab »

Last year I bought a Thinkpad E420s based on the praise I had read from multiple review sites and more importantly, the laptop is listed as Ubuntu certified. The first thing I did when I got it was install Ubuntu, of course. I'm not sure what "certified" means to Canonical but I assumed that every component would work flawlessly, such as the microphone, no sound output artifacts, smooth webcam, power & thermal management (although I understand Linux sucks in this regard), etc.

A few months ago, I bought a Macbook Air and as expected, there was a world of difference in seamless integration between OS and hardware.

If a vendor such as Lenovo built a Linux-based Thinkpad with something approaching the seamless integration and quality of OSX and Macbook hardware, I would gladly pay a premium over an Apple notebook.

Re: ThinkPad Design: Spirit and Essence

#60

Post by jlgreco »

cpeterso wrote: post #48
sedachv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing design with visual appeal. Steve Jobs loved to rant about design and longetivity, but Apple laptops only seem to excel on visual appeal (and this is a recent phenomenon - just look at the first PowerBook G4s). Design has to be functional, and this is where Apple always makes sacrifices. Bringing chiclet-style keyboards back into vogue (to the point where even Lenovo now puts them on Thinkpads) shows…

I've always thought the ThinkPad's keyboard is one of its worst attributes. The keyboard's layout is very cramped. The keys feel flimsy and loose. Their edges are sharp and exposed when you type.

For the life of me I cannot find a single sharp edge on this keyboard, as I type on it right now.
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