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Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

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Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#161

Post by sapphicsnail »

Animats wrote: post #111

Funny how the "story" doesn't link to the announcement it mostly copied from the CWA.[1] Here's the link to the union organizing page.[2] No draft union contract for Id, though. Interestingly, this is an industrial ("wall to wall") union, rather than a craft union such as The Animation Guild. IATSE Local 839, in Hollywood. TAG only represents specific jobs, mostly animation artists. A key point in TAG contracts is ho…

Would you mind explaining the difference between industrial vs trade union? Would something like the janitorial staff of a building owned by a gaming company be covered in an industrial union?

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#162

Post by palmotea »

kmeisthax wrote: post #95
palmotea wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your bosses are political, they shape politics to mold the environment around you. Unions form the bedrock of worker power, and workers should advocate for a more democratic society against the oligarchs. We are some of the best positioned in society to do so because we control the means of production. I should clarify: I totally agree with being "political" in that area. The stuff I'm thinking about are things lik…

That's fine and all until the company hires black people or Palestinian refugees and then suddenly the union has[0] to care. OK, that's a contrived scenario. But even outside of that scenario, social oppression is downstream of worker oppression . Cops aren't shooting black people because it's their kink, they're doing it to enforce the same social order that keeps your workers down. The next time the union strikes,…

> That's fine and all until the company hires black people or Palestinian refugees and then suddenly the union has[0] to care.

There's nothing about representing Palestinian in a workplace that means you have to take an official position on Gaza or even spend any time talking about it. Or any analogous thing for a member of any group.

> OK, that's a contrived scenario. But even outside of that scenario, social oppression is downstream of worker oppression. Cops aren't shooting black people because it's their kink, they're doing it to enforce the same social order that keeps your workers down. The next time the union strikes, those same cops are going to be there to break the picket line. Police are always the enemy of labor, and thus keeping the police in check is in-scope to a union's political activities.

But the problem is scope creep undermines the organization. All of what you said may be true, but Tech Union X isn't going to solve those problems and getting involved with them will make Tech Union X less effective at the things it can do.

Tech unions aren't even off the ground and unions generally are weakened and getting weaker, this is not a time to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#163

Post by charcircuit »

sallveburrpi wrote: post #135
charcircuit wrote: post #131

>RTO policies should not be handed down from executives with no consideration for accessibility or our well-being. If you don't like it, then quit. No one is forcing you to work for Id Software.

Or form a union and push back - why are you defending ID software executives?

Why wouldn't you defend the executives. They lead the company, so they have the power to make decisions on how it should operate. They will always have the power to choose how it operates union or not. Forming a union is just a power grab for the union.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#164

Post by DamonHD »

sallveburrpi wrote: post #159
jandrewrogers wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are imputing motives that are not in evidence.

This isn’t a court of law sir, this is a message board operated by a venture capitalist fund

I really want to do the "this is a Wendy's" thing, but...

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#165

Post by c-hendricks »

hellojesus wrote: post #89
micromacrofoot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yellow was in massive debt due to poor management decisions and the union fought against a move that would have combined driver seniority lists from various companies they managed, which they suspected was going to be used to cut people's jobs . The union did what it thought was best for all its members, and the company was in so much debt it couldn't figure out how to fulfill those needs another way. This is not a "…

My point is exactly that the union didn't do what was best for its members because their actions collapsed the company. Unions are subject to the constraints of operations. LTL is a very debt-heavy industry, and yellow pushed the envelop too far. But the union could have tried to negotiate a contract contingent on operating costs and debt load. They didn't. Instead they chose their line and then striked until the com…

> because their actions collapsed the company

The company blamed the collapse on their actions, different things.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#166

Post by avereveard »

acomjean wrote: post #133
DarkNova6 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to it? Last time I heard only good things about those guys, but that was around the release of DOOM in 2016.

It was a mess behind the scenes for the music contractor. Seemed badly planned and kinda scummy. The blog: (a long rant) https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-d...

The way author was treated seem terrible, but I don't understad an accomplished composer would accept a contract where all penalties for deadline are on him, instead of having variable deadlines based on deliverables? And starts working before the contract is finalized but sign the contract with the original delivery dates, starting on a project already late?

Was he under coercion?

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#167

Post by mbg721 »

RobRivera wrote: post #139
an_cap wrote: post #100

FWIW, the union (CWA) via its Seattle affiliate tried to get OPT banned, a visa status that many readers of HN benefited from - https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/cadc/2... . I encourage HN readers to better understand the relationship between unions and immigration before deciding whether they are in favor of joining/supporting unions.

Let's try to be honest when we discuss this kind of thing; Unions are like people. They have unique agendas, unique executive decisionmaking trends, and affect their members differently. No single union is 1:1 alike. When I had a family member get a job as a local grocery store bagger, then job stipulated he HAD to join the union and give his dues out of paycheck within 1 month or he would be fired from his job. He q…

I generally agree with this take. Some specific unions, especially in the US, seem unnecessarily adversarial to employers, but others are known primarily for upholding professional and safety standards (I'm thinking of electricians we contracted with at a previous job).

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#168

Post by frmersdog »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #86
overfeed wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that's cold comfort to someone who doesn't have a job because the company went out of business I suppose only those who lose their jobs because of a merger, or the CEO making poor decisions ought to get the warm and fuzzies because someone on the Internet won't blame them for their own misfortune. Somewhere on the spectrum between "egalitarian, flat organization Utopia" and "Slavery", one has to draw a line whe…

You forgot that collective ruin is also an option and we have seen this many times when societies attempted to do away with economic & market concepts.

Helped along by a little clandestine sabotage, of course.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#169

Post by DesiLurker »

As a non gaming engineer, I dont want a union, what I really want is solid (really, harsh) enforcement of basic common sense labor rules for exempt workers like weekly working hour limits, no after hours scheduling or minimum notice/severance period for layoffs & many other abuses. Problem is tech industry does not wants to give an inch and workers don't complain because of higher pay and 'lottery ticket' effect.

I fear the time for fixing this is passing fast. Its because within a decade AI will have enough of labor displacement that labor wont have any negotiating leverage against capital. If this happens with union, so be it.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#170

Post by Daishiman »

Manuel_D wrote: post #107
IshKebab wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the magical "perfect competition" view of the market that often doesn't match reality at all.

What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere? Yes, there are scenarios where employees are stripped of agency. E.g a factory owner taking and holding foreign worker's passports. But if you're going to allege that something is preventing these works from accepting competing offers, you have to offer evidence for that claim.

> What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere?

* Employer-bound health insurance in the US

* Industry blacklists to exclude uppity employees and union members

* Noncompetes and NDAs

* Extremely localized jobs and an ever-shrinking number of larger and larger conglomerates as employers

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