Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union • Hacker News Board

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#71

Post by ericmcer » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:22 PM UTC

daft_pink wrote: post #50

I don’t understand what gives the union power at the end of the day when the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone. Automotive plants have large factories, but when the primary assets are intangible intellectual property, I don’t understand how much power a union really has.

It's probably even more effective than other industries. Most industries you have good/bad workers but in software there is a few engineers where you cannot lose them. Who cares about scabs/replacements/etc. like literally no one has their specific domain knowledge.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#72

Post by NewJazz » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:22 PM UTC

hellojesus wrote: post #28

podgorniy wrote: post #20

Good for them. During economic downturns, when fewer resources are available for redistribution, collective action across population groups can help address worsening power imbalances.

To an extent. There is always the chance that the collective action discounts the impact to the business too heavily and ends up driving the company under, making the outcomes worse for everyone. We saw this a couple years ago with Yellow Trucking.

There is always a chance that management's misguided choices impact the business too heavily and drive the company under or at least greatly decrease the value of their output.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#73

Post by hobs » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:22 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #46

popalchemist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium.

Your theory only holds in the case that there is unfair exploitation happening. This is not that easy to define beyond salary averages…

How about comparing wage theft vs shrink - how much is everyone stealing from each other - almost 1 in 5 workers experience wage theft.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#74

Post by micromacrofoot » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:23 PM UTC

hellojesus wrote: post #28

podgorniy wrote: post #20

Good for them. During economic downturns, when fewer resources are available for redistribution, collective action across population groups can help address worsening power imbalances.

To an extent. There is always the chance that the collective action discounts the impact to the business too heavily and ends up driving the company under, making the outcomes worse for everyone. We saw this a couple years ago with Yellow Trucking.

Yellow was in massive debt due to poor management decisions and the union fought against a move that would have combined driver seniority lists from various companies they managed, which they suspected was going to be used to cut people's jobs .

The union did what it thought was best for all its members, and the company was in so much debt it couldn't figure out how to fulfill those needs another way.

This is not a "see unions are bad" example.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#75

Post by criddell » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:23 PM UTC

oncallthrow wrote: post #33

podgorniy wrote: post #20

Good for them. During economic downturns, when fewer resources are available for redistribution, collective action across population groups can help address worsening power imbalances.

Wrong, collective action doesn’t change anything. It simply interchanges who gets poorer.

But sometimes that's the goal.

In professional sports, the player's union helps raise athlete salaries and improve working conditions and that does ultimately come out of the owner's pockets.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#76

Post by seneca » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:23 PM UTC

hobs wrote: post #69

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But that's cold comfort to someone who doesn't have a job because the company went out of business. You would have to be an enormous asshole to say "it'll result in a better equilibrium" to someone who just lost his job.

And its cold comfort to us all to basically say "let's all agree to slavery so nobody loses their jobs".

> And its cold comfort to us all to basically say "let's all agree to slavery so nobody loses their jobs".

Comparing software development jobs in the modern United States to slavery is quite fanciful.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#77

Post by acomjean » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:23 PM UTC

podgorniy wrote: post #20

Good for them. During economic downturns, when fewer resources are available for redistribution, collective action across population groups can help address worsening power imbalances.

The devs probably looked at what happened to the music dept at Id as a cautionary tale.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#78

Post by foobarian » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

popalchemist wrote: post #34

hellojesus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent. There is always the chance that the collective action discounts the impact to the business too heavily and ends up driving the company under, making the outcomes worse for everyone. We saw this a couple years ago with Yellow Trucking.

If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium.

What if that unfair exploitation is perfectly normal behavior in overseas markets that happen to be competing? I guess we've been over the consequences of the globalization-driven equilibrium ad nauseam so no need to harp on it but it's still unfortunate.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#79

Post by appreciatorBus » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

popalchemist wrote: post #34

hellojesus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent. There is always the chance that the collective action discounts the impact to the business too heavily and ends up driving the company under, making the outcomes worse for everyone. We saw this a couple years ago with Yellow Trucking.

If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium.

Employees being paid less than they would prefer to get paid for a given type of work does not imply "unfair exploitation"

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#80

Post by echelon » Fri, Dec 12, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #47

popalchemist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium.

Perhaps. But that's cold comfort to someone who doesn't have a job because the company went out of business. You would have to be an enormous asshole to say "it'll result in a better equilibrium" to someone who just lost his job.

Also, this will result in more jobs being offshored.

Hollywood unions were a sticking point. In 2022 and 2023, following the lead of Netflix and Amazon, most of those jobs moved from the US to Europe and Asia.

Atlanta, which was booming for nearly two decades, which had built dozens of $500M class-A film production studios, is suddenly almost entirely vacant. We went from doing almost all of Marvel and Netflix to being a dead zone. We're at 20% of past volume, if that.

LA was evacuated of work even more precipitously.

It's all in Ireland, the UK, Eastern Europe, and Asia now.

Gaming is next. The Saudis and Chinese are chomping at the bit.

edit: fixed the idiom, thanks frmersdog