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Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

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Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#51

I don’t understand what gives the union power at the end of the day when the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone. Automotive plants have large factories, but when the primary assets are intangible intellectual property, I don’t understand how much power a union really has.

If you think all developers are interchangeable you're the reason they're forming a union.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#52

[dead]

Real life jobs are nowhere near this clear cut. Overly protective unions result in lower levels of innovation.

Please look to the EU and their --ZERO-- level of tech innovation and how their anti-business regulations have worked out.

Question - if you think layoffs during high profit times are bad/immoral, then should employees also accept pay cuts when profits are low?

Didn't think so. Think about that "power" dynamic you keep talking about.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#53

I don’t understand what gives the union power at the end of the day when the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone. Automotive plants have large factories, but when the primary assets are intangible intellectual property, I don’t understand how much power a union really has.

> the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone…

This turns out to be a lot harder in practice than in theory.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium.

> If the company's existence depends on the unfair exploitation of its staff, its foreclosure is inevitable and justified, and that is simply the price everyone involved must pay to maintain equilibrium. Claiming that all non-union companies are inherently operating via "unfair exploitation of its staff" is ridiculous. It's entirely possible for a labor union to go too far and drive a company to become noncompetitive…

The statement wasn't really pro or against unions. Simply put, if your company can only survive while exploiting its workers it shouldn't survive.

Whether that's due to constant turnover from poor treatment of their employees, or due to union strikes, doesn't change the statement.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#55

I don’t understand what gives the union power at the end of the day when the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone. Automotive plants have large factories, but when the primary assets are intangible intellectual property, I don’t understand how much power a union really has.

If software workers were that replaceable, they wouldn't be paid huge salaries to sit in offices in San Francisco, they'd be outsourced already.

(Mind you, that very individualism is why they're not already unionized)

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t twitter get 3/4 people laid off? Seems to still work as of time of writing (x.com).

They cut quite a lot projects and side products (from tweet deck to different statistics and insights to ads), some other things they scaled down a lot (in the past one could read everything without being signed in, now they limit to sign in users, which certainly takes a lot of load and thus need to keep systems running) Also initially they had a lot of breakage.

Indeed when you have fewer people you generally reduce scope

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#58

I don’t understand what gives the union power at the end of the day when the company could easily outsource development and license their ip and fire everyone. Automotive plants have large factories, but when the primary assets are intangible intellectual property, I don’t understand how much power a union really has.

Federal law makes it illegal to retaliate against people for forming a union. Companies still do, and there's no law saying they have to keep hiring in that unit, but if they fire everyone they will probably lose the resulting lawsuit.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#59

I like the idea and encourage software workers unions. Is there an umbrella union that they can belong to? How effective are these new unions? I imagine these new tech unions don't have the same "shop floor" power as in industry. Why is this? Perhaps generally the ideals the new unions are advocating for are different than traditional ones?

According to the article, they are part of the Communications Workers of America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Workers_of_Amer...

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#60

I like the idea and encourage software workers unions. Is there an umbrella union that they can belong to? How effective are these new unions? I imagine these new tech unions don't have the same "shop floor" power as in industry. Why is this? Perhaps generally the ideals the new unions are advocating for are different than traditional ones?

Situation: There are 14 competing unions. You: That's ridiculous! We need one universal union that covers everyone's needs. Yeah! Situation: There are 15 competing unions.

Is there an alternative union that you think Id employees should have joined?
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