Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013 • Hacker News Board

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#31

Post by prodigal_erik » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 9:43 PM UTC

barik wrote: post #29

ilaksh wrote: post #28

I am guessing I could answer enough (how many is enough?) of these 80 multiple choice questions to pass the exam right now. But it would be nice to have an idea of what other people think is the most important information in each topic they mention in that PDF (as far as passing the exam). So maybe we should create a wiki where we enter in all of the information people should understand in order to pass the exam? I c…

It is the last step. The other steps vary by state, but in general, it requires that you have at least four years of documented and progressive experience under the direction of another licensed Engineer. You also need to have taken the EIT, which is a general Engineering exam that covers all disciplines, not just computers (brush up on your thermodynamics and concrete mixing!). If you do not have an ABET degree, the…

Don't engineering licenses usually require a bunch of stuff like fluid mechanics and metal fatigue which are completely irrelevant for reliable software? I think we'd be better served with more statistics and denotational semantics....

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#32

Post by barik » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 9:45 PM UTC

prodigal_erik wrote: post #31

barik wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the last step. The other steps vary by state, but in general, it requires that you have at least four years of documented and progressive experience under the direction of another licensed Engineer. You also need to have taken the EIT, which is a general Engineering exam that covers all disciplines, not just computers (brush up on your thermodynamics and concrete mixing!). If you do not have an ABET degree, the…

Don't engineering licenses usually require a bunch of stuff like fluid mechanics and metal fatigue which are completely irrelevant for reliable software? I think we'd be better served with more statistics and denotational semantics....

The EIT does, because the first portion is a general Engineering exam. It is generally at the sophomore level of a four-year University. The PE exam, however, is related to your discipline, though sometimes tangential questions may appear (some analog circuits on a digital exam).

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#33

Post by prodigal_erik » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

wsh wrote: post #30

tomkinstinch wrote: post #3

What does this mean for people currently working as programmers? Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?

The new exam just gives states a way to evaluate applicants for licenses in software engineering. I haven’t heard that any state—not even Texas, which sponsored development of the exam—has changed its engineering practice laws or regulations. If and when such changes are made, I expect the result would be something like the situation for electrical engineers now: a nominal requirement for licensure coupled with broad…

Essentially all software we've ever produced has been grossly defective (yes, including mine) and I hesitate to even call it engineering. Doing this at the current stage of the profession is like doctors formally specifying best practice for bloodletting and leeches.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#34

Post by barik » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #28

I am guessing I could answer enough (how many is enough?) of these 80 multiple choice questions to pass the exam right now. But it would be nice to have an idea of what other people think is the most important information in each topic they mention in that PDF (as far as passing the exam). So maybe we should create a wiki where we enter in all of the information people should understand in order to pass the exam? I c…

> I am guessing I could answer enough (how many is enough?) of these 80 multiple choice questions to pass the exam right now.

The cutoff scores vary by year, but roughly 70% is a good benchmark for passing. Unless you fail, your actual score is not revealed. You can see the pass rates here [1], but not the actual cutoffs.

[1] http://www.ncees.org/Exams/PE_exam.php

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#35

Post by mangler » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 10:11 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

Yeah, not a big waterfall (or agile, or any other pyramid scheme) fan myself, but this kind of bullshit did get a man on the Moon and then a mixture of them got some kit on Mars, and generally they are doing OK.

Some of them can actually scan you or your friend's internal organs to see if they're alright too - that's not going to be php on a lamp stack. I'm guessing they are probably not moving fast and breaking things either. They may be taking it easy with your friends internal organs, just so they don't get sued by the growing legal community on HN.

There's also all that bizarre software that somehow delivers you to the airport of your choice. I wonder how that happens - do they have their Agile/Waterfall/Kanban/Nonsense boards on their office walls in order to get you there?

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#36

Post by wes-exp » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 10:15 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

What would you rather see on an exam then? Is the entire notion of requirements/design/etc. not "agile" enough, or what?

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#37

Post by noarchy » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 10:18 PM UTC

Developers are fortunate that our field has not been swamped by credential inflation. In other words, we don't even need a degree to do what we do. It is enough to have a portfolio of solid work and some good references, and high-paying work can come your way.

The last thing I want to see is for some kind of guild to arise, which could ultimately lock down the industry (via government requiring licensing, for instance).

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#38

Post by swalsh » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 10:33 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

There are writers who write novels, and there are writers who write textbooks. While the end results look a lot alike. Both have covers, both have words, both convey concepts, the purpose of the books is completely different. As such, the methodology for writing the book is different. There might even be some commonalities between the two. You might do fact checking between the two... but the facts matter a lot more in a textbook, then a novel. While you actually can use the same process a group of professors use to develop a textbook to write your novel, it doesn't make sense to use the same process a novel writer might use to develop a textbook. To do so would be potentially irresponsible to the students who consume the textbook.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#39

Post by spamizbad » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 11:02 PM UTC

wes-exp wrote: post #36

spamizbad wrote: post #8

Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…

What would you rather see on an exam then? Is the entire notion of requirements/design/etc. not "agile" enough, or what?

Process-agnostic (So it can be carried into any organization's culture) nuts-and-bolts approach to designing, building, and testing software. Not open book, and not 100% multiple choice. Require actual code to be written from scratch, in addition to an existing systems to be "maintained" by applying a security fix, adding a feature, or put under test.

Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013

#40

Post by rprasad » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 11:08 PM UTC

People on HN seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of this exam. This exam is not for web programmers, or game programmers, or any "startup"-type programmers. If what you do can be done iteratively without much problem, this exam is not for you.

This exam is for people who work on very difficult, very error-sensitive, very high-end stuff that needs to work from the very start: jet planes, medical devices, spacevessel systems, etc. You don't get second chances with these types of systems, so this exam is focused on making sure passers know the gold standard for how coding is currently done in these areas.