A software engineering certification exam with no coding seems a little odd.
Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
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Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#22What does this mean for people currently working as programmers? Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?
It could be necessary to be licensed for government jobs or jobs in large companies building real time critical systems (ie power grid control software, avionics, etc). I doubt it'll ever catch on for programming jobs in mobile/web/etc
I think it will become necessary for the areas you outline, particularly in industrial control. Although best practices and standards have been established for electrical systems and mechanical systems, my observations in factory control show that the programming components continue to be the most fragile and buggy. And currently the legislation here lags as well since software systems are typically __not__ certified, except in certain military cases.
This isn't something for Web 2.0 programmers, who can carry on as they have been doing. Instead, it's for folks like myself who have designed the clean-room door locking logic for the CDC when contamination is detected (see "Walking Dead" for a grossly exaggerated example of such a system).
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#23A software engineering certification exam with no coding seems a little odd.
That's because in "high brow software engineering", coding is for "workers" (as in "construction workers").
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#24What does this mean for people currently working as programmers? Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?
Probably nothing. But companies that either choose or are "forced" into this will probably start to differentiate "software engineers" from "programmers" (treating the latters as just a "technical labour").
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#25A software engineering certification exam with no coding seems a little odd.
That's because in "high brow software engineering", coding is for "workers" (as in "construction workers").
Well, the exam for Electrical Engineers doesn't have them build a circuit either. I assume you're forgetting that you also have to apply to the State Board, documenting your entire Engineering career, which will be the most substantial part of the licensing process. I guarantee you that you'll have plenty of opportunity at this time to demonstrate your programming experiences.
When individuals ask me for a PE recommendation, I am often reminded in particular of one of the questions from the PPI2PASS FAQ [1]:
Q: I have been in supervision since graduation. I have never performed a single calculation.
A: Oops.
[1] https://ppi2pass.com/faqs/qualifying-to-take-the-licensing-e...
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#26Looks like "How to do Waterfall" (62.5% of the test) with additional coverage of Security (15%), QA (7.5%), and Engineering process (7.5%), and Configuration Maintenance (7.5%). There are 80 multiple-choice questions spread across 2 sessions (4 hours each). Open book. An overview of the exam: http://ncees.org/Documents/Public/Exam%20specifications/PE%2... Not something I'd feel inclined to get unless this somehow bec…
Really? Just because its structured like waterfall doesn't mean its "how to do waterfall". I read the req spec and there isn't a thing on here that isn't valuable information for every engineer no matter what process they use. Read what it actually covers and the topics they test and tell me there's something on there that is completely useless.
> Really? Just because its structured like waterfall doesn't mean its "how to do waterfall".
That's funny.
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#27A software engineering certification exam with no coding seems a little odd.
I'll always remember the words of one my professors when practicing for the EIT/FE. He said, "The EIT doesn't test to see if you know Engineering, it tests to see if you know how to read." I have found that statement to be quite true, and the difference between those who pass and those who don't are more a function of how well you read and comprehend exactly what the question is asking for more than anything else (e.g., the "closest answer" is often a different Engineering requirement than the "best answer").
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#28I am guessing I could answer enough (how many is enough?) of these 80 multiple choice questions to pass the exam right now.
But it would be nice to have an idea of what other people think is the most important information in each topic they mention in that PDF (as far as passing the exam).
So maybe we should create a wiki where we enter in all of the information people should understand in order to pass the exam?
I created one on Wikia in case anyone is interested.
Also, question, would this PE exam be the last step in obtaining a Software Engineering license, or would it be the only step. If its the last step, exactly what are the other steps? What group would provide a software engineering license? Would there be any point in me passing this exam, since I don't even have a college degree?
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#29I am guessing I could answer enough (how many is enough?) of these 80 multiple choice questions to pass the exam right now. But it would be nice to have an idea of what other people think is the most important information in each topic they mention in that PDF (as far as passing the exam). So maybe we should create a wiki where we enter in all of the information people should understand in order to pass the exam? I c…
It is the last step. The other steps vary by state, but in general, it requires that you have at least four years of documented and progressive experience under the direction of another licensed Engineer. You also need to have taken the EIT, which is a general Engineering exam that covers all disciplines, not just computers (brush up on your thermodynamics and concrete mixing!).
If you do not have an ABET degree, then it is still possible to obtain a PE, but the requirements generally go from four years to sixteen years of documented experience.
I may be wrong, I don't think this will be a route for Computer Science. It is more for those individuals who have been programming under other Engineering hats ("controls", "electrical", "mechanical") but now have a way to take an exam that satisfies their actual Engineering work. For instance, I might have fit more under the hat of Software Engineer (since I did a lot of embedded programming), but had to take the Electrical Engineering exam instead due to lack of selection.
Re: Professional Software Engineer Exam coming in April 2013
#30What does this mean for people currently working as programmers? Will it be necessary to study up and get licensed to remain competitive?
The new exam just gives states a way to evaluate applicants for licenses in software engineering. I haven’t heard that any state—not even Texas, which sponsored development of the exam—has changed its engineering practice laws or regulations.
If and when such changes are made, I expect the result would be something like the situation for electrical engineers now: a nominal requirement for licensure coupled with broad exemptions that make it practically irrelevant for most people working in the field.
In most states, only a licensed (registered) engineer may use the title “electrical engineer,” practice electrical engineering, or offer electrical engineering services to the public, but there is usually a so-called “industrial exemption” from these requirements; this section of the California Business and Professions Code is typical:
6747. (a) This chapter, except for those provisions
that apply to civil engineers and civil engineering,
shall not apply to the performance of engineering work
by a manufacturing, mining, public utility, research
and development, or other industrial corporation, or
by employees of that corporation, provided that work
is in connection with, or incidental to, the products,
systems, or services of that corporation or its
affiliates.
(b) For purposes of this section, “employees” also
includes consultants, temporary employees, contract
employees, and those persons hired pursuant to third-
party contracts.
Practically speaking, the only electrical engineers who must have licenses are those designing electric power systems for buildings or working for public utilities, which often choose to employ only licensed engineers in positions of responsibility, even when this is not legally required.
As a licensed engineer myself, I’m not sure this state of affairs is best for the public or for the engineering profession, but I’m also not convinced that software engineering, as a discipline, is sufficiently mature that even a nominal requirement for licensure would provide enough real benefits to justify the burden on practitioners.