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Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

forever-wars.com

21–30 of 64 posts

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clearly think of anyone they don't like as not human. I am only indulging in their crime. They do what evil people would do.

Thinking that the word is divided into evil and non evil people is not very useful.

No, that's true, and I don't actually think that the world is divided into good and evil. Nor do I think anyone doing this really has anything to fear from the justice system.

But to the degree you can take a normal person and twist them into something horribly unfit for civil society, having them do torture is the way. It's the express lane to not seeing others as human, not even when they're in front of you, being tortured by you.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#22

This is how people lose credibility. The articles wants to make you think the box is a 3d confinement reminiscent of the drawing. From the description it sounds like it is a 4 square foot cage that the person stands in while cuffed. Yes it’s bad. No, it’s not like the box mentioned at the CIA Black site.

I think if you ever get to the point where you're argument hinges on 'well actually it's torture but it's not THAT BAD of torture' you should really step back and analyze if your post is really worth making or not.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#24

This is how people lose credibility. The articles wants to make you think the box is a 3d confinement reminiscent of the drawing. From the description it sounds like it is a 4 square foot cage that the person stands in while cuffed. Yes it’s bad. No, it’s not like the box mentioned at the CIA Black site.

Just because they are not literally identical does mean they are unrelated. The author points this out and it sounds horrific.

> The four men interviewed by Amnesty International, as well as Florida-based organizations, told the organization about the ‘box’, described as a 2x2 foot cage-like structure located outside in the yard of “Alligator Alcatraz” where individuals are sent for punishment. Individuals are put in the ‘box’, their hands are shackled and their feet are attached to restraints on the ground. They are unable to sit down or move positions, and are forced to remain there for hours in the heat with hardly any water or protection from the sun, heat and insects. According to a man seeking safety, “People ended up in the ‘box’ just for asking the guards for anything. I saw a guy who was put in it for an entire day.”

> A "2x2 cage-like structure… [an] extremely small space that prevents sitting, lying or changing position" has dimensions startlingly reminiscent of those the Senate documented in the black sites. The major difference is that in Florida, the Small Box is exposed to the elements and constructed as a barred cage, whereas in Catseye, it was a closed structure inside the larger closed structure of the black site. And in Florida, the box is used as punishment. According to one of the Alligator Alcatraz survivors in the Amnesty report, people were put into the box simply for alerting the guards to someone's need for medication. "They were taken to 'the box' and punished for trying to help me," the person told Amnesty

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#25

[flagged]

> The people doing this should tried and executed That won't happen. Lynndie England served 3 years and roams freely in the USA. The death penalty is wrong anyway. > They aren't humans anymore Congratulations. That is what the Nazis said about the Jews. Human rights are indivisible. This is a cornerstone of western civilization.

The death penalty is wrong, but I think there's a point where when you have politicians wielding massive amounts of power being willfully capricious that the crime is on a wholly different scale. They should be held to a higher standard and I think that higher standard can and should include harsher penalties in cases of crimes against humanity.

The argument that human rights are indivisible is contradicted by your statement right after as western civilization turns inwards on itself and begins removing human rights.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#26

>45% of voters would vote for Trump again, today.

What does the orange-utan has to do with this ? The free rein of the CIA and associated atrocities have been the same under every US president.

No, it hasn’t. The CIA didn’t do this under Clinton because it’s a war crime, and Cold War Republicans prided themselves on saying we were better than e.g. the Viet Cong. The Bush cadre broke the U.S. law written just a few years before by their own party[1] by adopting techniques American forces were trained could be used against them if they were captured, not things which were previously sanctioned.

Obama’s greatest moral failing was not having war crimes trials. There is a direct line between the Bush-era embrace of torture abroad and the mistreatment we’re now seeing domestically.

1. War Crimes Act of 1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#27

This kind of seems to be a combined strategy. I mean this is not old; many of us may still remember Abu Ghraib and so forth. We now have a somewhat comparable situation: build up of enemies. See ICE raids and videos manhunting people. There always are people susceptible to do so (e. g. inflict pain onto others). The strange thing is how some "democracies" do that. Where is the net difference to a dictatorship? This i…

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Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people doing this should tried and executed That won't happen. Lynndie England served 3 years and roams freely in the USA. The death penalty is wrong anyway. > They aren't humans anymore Congratulations. That is what the Nazis said about the Jews. Human rights are indivisible. This is a cornerstone of western civilization.

Neither torture nor genocide is recognized anywhere as a human right. After WWII we held trials.

>Neither torture nor genocide is recognized anywhere as a human right. After WWII we held trials.

What do you want to tell me? Of course torture is not a human right. That doesn't change a bit that human rights apply to everyone. Even to the torturer. Sure, we should put him/her in prison for a long time but never does even the torturer loose his/her humanity. That is exactly what distinguishes us from the nazis/fascists.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is not a democracy. Since when? You probably think that it has been a democracy at some point. And I'm sure the US did use torture at the time you deemed it a democracy. Hence I don't get your point.

I never claimed it was a democracy, either today or in the past. I actually said the opposite.

I see. I thought you meant "under Trump the US is not a democracy". Which I think is a pretty common opinion. But now I understand you meant "the US has never been a democracy".
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