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Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

yosefk.com

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Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#21

Post by _yosefk »

j_jochem wrote: post #5

This is a nice response to the other blog post. It is amazing how privileged your life gets when you can do black magic with code that most people don't even dream of ever being able to understand. However, I disagree with this statement: "So I'm not planning to quit programming, not because it's such a great source of joy by itself, but because it looks so good compared to just about anything else." Well, I wouldn't…

It's a lot of fun, but not the deciding factor. I have a great gig now, but it won't necessarily last, and I won't necessarily be able to get a similar job (it's in hardware architecture and software tools and there are likely to be less jobs in these things over time, though not necessarily). I'm not sure the typical programming job is that much fun for me, but it's decent enough and the question always is what you'd do if you decided to leave the field.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#22

Post by scotty79 »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #11

> "The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you. " Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky. But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that req…

The programmers write programs that enable new activities that require more programs. Even if we consciously attempted to turn every person on the planet into a programmer I don't think supply overcomes the demand. Ever. Until the strong AI is developed.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#23

Post by plinkplonk »

_yosefk wrote: post #15
tatsuke95 wrote: post #11

> "The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you. " Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky. But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that req…

Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? The demand has been strong for a decade and a half; it seems like a lot of time. (I'm not sure I have an explanation myself, really; perhaps it's something innate in people and perhaps it's something about education, but the fact remains that the world still hasn't churned out enough programmers even though the incentives have been there for a long time. One possible exp…

"Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? "

Visas.

Most programming work (of the type talked about in the OP) originates in the USA, and most companies, even startups, need employees to come in the door everyday. (not taking on the question of whether this is ideal or not, that is the just the way it is, right now) .

Imagine (as a thought experiment) a scenario where a smart kid who lives in India or Ukraine or Africa is just able to get on a plane and land in SF for an interview or a job irrespective of whether he has the right degree, paperwork etc and without jumping through hoops at the consulate and rolling the dice.

The (edit: thanks @daladd for correction) supply would go way up and hence average salary would go down (which is why large companies are trying for more H1 Bs - they like easier availability of devs and lower salaries)

Or imagine the border with Mexico being completely officially open. See what happens to the dishwasher/fruit picker payment structure.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#24

Post by chaosmonkey »

readme wrote: post #18
TeeWEE wrote: post #7

If you're into programmer and not in it for the passion there is a high chance that you're a mediocre programmer. But indeed that doesnt matter. Because the demand is high. But for me, this is what drives me: working with an excellent team on a product/service that is heavily used and comes with technical challenges. If managers, business and bad programmers interfere with this, i'd rather stop and get a decent job.…

Judging by OP's blog, I'd say he's passionate. Look at his other articles. He says he's "in it for the money" because he's honest. No one working to earn a living is not in it for the money, and if they tell you otherwise they're delusional. I think the measure should be "Would you still program if this wasn't your job?" and if the answer is yes, then the passion is there. I really hate it when people decry the impor…

I guess if you are into something with a passion (programming), more often than not you are going to be good at it and the money follows.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#26

Post by sturadnidge »

henrik_w wrote: post #3

One of the biggest reason there aren't that many 50-year-old programmers is that a lot of programmers move to other roles in the same company, like line manager, project manager, product manager or various sales roles.

Agreed - the emergence of career progression (ie monetary progression) based on technical qualities rather than managerial ones is only a fairly recent phenomenon... at least, in all the companies I have worked for (large enterprise).

It's not surprising many former programmers of that vintage are in the managerial ranks now. Whether that is a good or bad thing, I'm not sure.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#27

Post by TeeWEE »

readme wrote: post #18
TeeWEE wrote: post #7

If you're into programmer and not in it for the passion there is a high chance that you're a mediocre programmer. But indeed that doesnt matter. Because the demand is high. But for me, this is what drives me: working with an excellent team on a product/service that is heavily used and comes with technical challenges. If managers, business and bad programmers interfere with this, i'd rather stop and get a decent job.…

Judging by OP's blog, I'd say he's passionate. Look at his other articles. He says he's "in it for the money" because he's honest. No one working to earn a living is not in it for the money, and if they tell you otherwise they're delusional. I think the measure should be "Would you still program if this wasn't your job?" and if the answer is yes, then the passion is there. I really hate it when people decry the impor…

Off course everybody needs money to survive. But when choosing a profession, some people choose to be an attorney because they can get a big salery.

However I choose computer science because of the passion. I also had a passion for making music. But the passion and the money are the drivers. But the main driver is not the money.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#28

Post by usaar333 »

hyko wrote: post #25

>" No health (...) risks " I'd like to see some research to back up this claim, but I'm not aware of any studies into occupational health for programmers. Does anyone know of any?

Can't think of any offhand, but I anecdotally, tendonitis is a huge risk for programmers.

While you can't claim "no health risks", they are pretty low as far as jobs are concerned.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#29

Post by dmethvin »

I'm one of those guys programming in my 50s. Technically my jobs involve project management and consulting as well but I still love programming the most.

Saying that programming "requires little or no education" is from the perspective of either a naturally smart person or the Dunning–Kruger effect. Like any profession, there are some self-motivated people who can do the job effectively without formal education. Yet it saves time to have everyone on the same page with knowledge of basic algorithms, terminology, and problem-solving methods.

If money is your motivator for programming in your 20s, the odds are that you will find some other way to make more money and not last until you're 50. At least I hope so.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#30

Post by pyre »

plinkplonk wrote: post #23
_yosefk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? The demand has been strong for a decade and a half; it seems like a lot of time. (I'm not sure I have an explanation myself, really; perhaps it's something innate in people and perhaps it's something about education, but the fact remains that the world still hasn't churned out enough programmers even though the incentives have been there for a long time. One possible exp…

"Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? " Visas. Most programming work (of the type talked about in the OP) originates in the USA, and most companies, even startups, need employees to come in the door everyday. (not taking on the question of whether this is ideal or not, that is the just the way it is, right now) . Imagine (as a thought experiment) a scenario where a smart kid who lives in India or Ukraine or…

  > The demand (and hence average salary) in SF for
  > programmers would go way down
Wouldn't this be detrimental to the SF area, considering as the high cost of living? I realize that cost of living will probably lower to meet what people can afford, but not without growing (or shrinking) pains, I imagine.
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