Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

yosefk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 289 posts

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#11

Post by tatsuke95 »

>"The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you."

Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky.

But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that requires "Little or no education", and "no physical effort" (not to mention the ease of globalizing coding) that has sustained the kind of market pressure where agents are required to fend off recruiters, or kids right out of school can demand six figure salaries and four weeks of holidays right off the bat.

America (and the world) will churn out programmers until being a programmer is a marginal decision, equal among many occupations. It will lose its luster; it has already happened to lawyers. So planning on having a blase attitude towards deadlines and stress-free work in this field at 50 (assuming you're ~30 now) is a tad naive. I believe this will be an extremely competitive field in 20 years.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#12

Post by dasil003 »

koide wrote: post #2

If what's described is true: a) Tons of money to be made b) Tons of unmet demand Why the outsourcing market isn't growing as much as it should? There are plenty of places with more than capable programmers which are usually paid in peanuts not only when compared with SV, but when compared to people in the same country. That smells like a niche waiting to be disrupted. He who solves the trust and quality perception an…

There's a lot to be said for face time. Given an average contractor, if you bring him on site and meet with the team for 3 days a month, I bet the ROI easily doubles.

Getting value out of outsourced workers is a skill more rare than programming itself.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#14

Post by bjansn »

TeeWEE wrote: post #8
bjansn wrote: post #4

I've seen all kind of different programmers. The ones that are not in it for the money and the ones that hate their job but won't switch because it has a good pay. It reminded me of this animated movie about 'what motivates us' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc The essence: don't underpay and don't overpay. More and more programmers are looking for good company cultures with a good (but not highest pay). Mon…

Hooray. That is exactly what drives me too. The culture, the people, the actual work is more important. Working for a huge amount of money in a corporate machinery is a brain killer.

Yes! But make enough money so you don't have to worry leaving the lifestyle you'd want.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#15

Post by _yosefk »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #11

> "The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you. " Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky. But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that req…

Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? The demand has been strong for a decade and a half; it seems like a lot of time.

(I'm not sure I have an explanation myself, really; perhaps it's something innate in people and perhaps it's something about education, but the fact remains that the world still hasn't churned out enough programmers even though the incentives have been there for a long time. One possible explanation is that much of the software implements bureaucratic processes and there's always more demand for this sort of processes - so demand will outstrip supply no matter what happens at the supply side.)

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#16

Post by bjansn »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #11

> "The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you. " Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky. But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that req…

But I envision in a few years we will talk more explicitly about 'coders' and 'programmers'. It's just a very different ballgame.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#17

Post by koide »

mtrimpe wrote: post #9
koide wrote: post #2

If what's described is true: a) Tons of money to be made b) Tons of unmet demand Why the outsourcing market isn't growing as much as it should? There are plenty of places with more than capable programmers which are usually paid in peanuts not only when compared with SV, but when compared to people in the same country. That smells like a niche waiting to be disrupted. He who solves the trust and quality perception an…

The problem with outsourcing is not 'quality perception,' it's the actual quality. The good programmers around the world command good salaries, whether out-sourced or not. In the end it doesn't matter whether you're in India or the the US; there are just not that many great programmers around.

That's why I said quality perception and control. This is, making sure you are producing what's needed.

As to the rest, I'm baffled. How can you even think it doesn't matter where you are?

Different cultures value differently different jobs. For example, I know of places where programmers are not valued much and it doesn't matter how good you are, you'll not earn more than a corporate salesman.

Maybe it doesn't matter for the top 0.5% who end up going to work for Google or Facebook anyway. But there are lots of jobs for merely above average programmers, which are very well compensated in the US, but not at all well elsewhere.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#18

Post by readme »

TeeWEE wrote: post #7

If you're into programmer and not in it for the passion there is a high chance that you're a mediocre programmer. But indeed that doesnt matter. Because the demand is high. But for me, this is what drives me: working with an excellent team on a product/service that is heavily used and comes with technical challenges. If managers, business and bad programmers interfere with this, i'd rather stop and get a decent job.…

Judging by OP's blog, I'd say he's passionate. Look at his other articles.

He says he's "in it for the money" because he's honest. No one working to earn a living is not in it for the money, and if they tell you otherwise they're delusional. I think the measure should be "Would you still program if this wasn't your job?" and if the answer is yes, then the passion is there.

I really hate it when people decry the importance of money, because money is basically our unit of human sustenance. It is what we trade for food, shelter, and clothing.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#19

Post by koide »

dasil003 wrote: post #12
koide wrote: post #2

If what's described is true: a) Tons of money to be made b) Tons of unmet demand Why the outsourcing market isn't growing as much as it should? There are plenty of places with more than capable programmers which are usually paid in peanuts not only when compared with SV, but when compared to people in the same country. That smells like a niche waiting to be disrupted. He who solves the trust and quality perception an…

There's a lot to be said for face time. Given an average contractor, if you bring him on site and meet with the team for 3 days a month, I bet the ROI easily doubles. Getting value out of outsourced workers is a skill more rare than programming itself.

And that's why it's a perfect niche for disruption: High barrier to entry, lots of money in the market. Yummy.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#20

Post by Swizec »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #11

> "The fact is that your material well-being is rarely in jeopardy because of a missed deadline, so your reaction is fully up to you. " Much of what the author says is true, currently. This is a fantastic market for programmers, and anyone being born into this era is lucky. But the forces of supply and demand will sort this market out in the future, to which the author seems ignorant. Name another profession that req…

Yes and no.

Look at what happened to "making websites". It used to be a super lucrative field, now agencies who can afford to slash prices because they hire cheap developers can churn those out by the hundreds a month. It's become a very silly market to compete in because all the competition that still happens is based on price.

But while this was happening, the web evolved and opened up new jobs and opportunities. Now you can make a lot of money by making web apps, interactive things and so on and so on. That's still not a market where everyone can compete.

Even moreso, mobile has opened up.

So I think that programming has a very lucrative future for a while yet, because new fields where it is applicable open up faster than old ones become commoditized.

Post reply on HN