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Living in a Van

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Living in a Van

#121

Post by sliverstorm »

whyaduck wrote: post #113
Cass wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting money into a house you'll presumably be able to live in rent-free once it's paid off may not be a drastically worse choice than putting your money into savings. Unless it was an impractically huge house, or otherwise somehow not a keeper, I wouldn't consider that a frivolous/non-frugal purchase.

Unless he bought in 2006-2007. Still not frivolous...just a mistake.

"Mistake" implies the person should have known better. There are plenty of little guys who got trampled by the crash who did nothing wrong.

Re: Living in a Van

#122

Post by sliverstorm »

brc wrote: post #114

I spent 3 months travelling in a 1978 Dodge RV, which I bought in LA for about $3000, and spent maybe $500 on parts for. It looked much like the one pictured in the article. I tore out the broken toilet and put in a chemical one, repaired the plumbing for the shower and got it going, replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. They key to buying one of these is take your time, and try out all the stuff. While fi…

stayed in state parks... usually just $10 or so a night.

So, $300/mo?

covered 11,000 miles

I'll be generous and say your 1978 RV got 10mpg. That puts you at around $4,000 in fuel costs, assuming this trip was in the past couple years.

1978 Dodge RV, which I bought in LA for about $3000... When I was done I donated the camper

spent less money than most would spend on the average Las Vegas trip.

Good lord. Based on my estimates, you racked up $7-8,000; how much do people spend in Vegas?

Re: Living in a Van

#123

Post by rdl »

GFischer wrote: post #45
rdl wrote: post #8

My favorite "living in a van" story is http://www.hobostripper.com/ (I wonder how much worse a van is than a military trailer. Those range from 40x12 with private bathroom and nice furnishings down to 10x8 with a roommate and no bathroom. It's probably a lot easier due to everyone else around you doing exactly the same thing, and there being portapotties, shower trailers, etc. freely available.) I lived in a car for…

Would that scale for someone who wanted to do an extended visit to the Bay Area? (say a month or so) I'd like to visit San Francisco, but, apart from the US Visa and airfare, accomodation doesn't seem cheap (I haven't researched much but it comes up all the time here on HN). Food, oddly enough, sounds cheaper than in my 3rd world country.

I think it would suck if you were not actually familiar with the area first. I'd just do a hostel or cheap hotel or crash with friends (couchsurfing, etc.) Also, hotel rates now are a lot higher than they were in 2002-2003 (which was the middle of a tech recession).

Craigslist used to have short-term sublet inventory, but now it's pretty weak.

Re: Living in a Van

#124

Post by sukuriant »

brc wrote: post #111
sukuriant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking with a lamborghini dealer, I was informed that some exceptionally rich people will purchase one of those, keep it for 3 years, and then sell it back at a profit because they depreciate so slowly. I thought this was interesting.

You were lied to. There are virtually no lamborghinis that have ever increased in value over their original purchase price. This might work if you live in a country with exceptionally high inflation - although you're still losing money (in real terms) the re-sale price might be nominally higher. Exotic car speculation is the sport of kings - from time to time, it pays off (an orignal McLaren F1 is worth approximately…

The idea was this. You buy a new [expensive car] and have it on loan. You pay off the loan steadily. Then, a few years down the road, you'll make it so that your loan is less than the amount of money you could sell the car for; then you sell the car. The difference is the amount of money you've made.

I did the math and you wouldn't be getting all of your money back; but at the end you made a profit and you did get to drive a rather expensive car.

Re: Living in a Van

#125

Post by unreal37 »

timofei7 wrote: post #82
larrys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"is class disdain because I'm too well off to consider it or class disdain because when I wasn't well off we had too much pride to ever stoop to anything like that." Normally when you read stories about these outliers in life there is always a story behind it. I remember the case of the guy on the street corner who was discovered as having singing talent, made it to network news shows, was given some sort of leg up o…

So many negative reactions, I'm surprised. But then I've been surprised by how narrow a band "normalcy" really is before. I lived in a van for a summer. I have a story, but I don't think it involves mental illness or laziness or wasting my life. I was working fulltime as a sysadmin at an Ivey League school and taking classes fulltime there at the same time. Yes, that meant I slept very little and had no "free time",…

Great story, and an interesting perspective.

I don't necessarily agree with some of the judgements you are making about how society treated you. You were acting strange and should not be surprised that people were concerned about you. There are also good social reasons why society doesn't make it easy for people to live in their cars. Safety, cleanliness, property rights, collection of taxes, etc.

You say "society does not take kindly to seemingly slight deviations from normal". I don't think your experiment that summer was a slight deviation. What you did was two standard deviations away from normal. If only 0.1% of society would ever do what you did voluntarily, that by definition makes it abnormal.

That's doesn't make it bad or wrong. Just not normal.

Re: Living in a Van

#126

Post by dmorgan »

tgrass wrote: post #58
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

Good to know we shouldn't have pleasure so long as there is any man who can't share in it. [EDIT] single father/middle class technocrat here, living paycheck to paycheck. Many of my friends make less than I do. By this measure of hubris, I should not go out to eat so long as fellow engineers are looking for work.

>Good to know we shouldn't have pleasure so long as there is any man who can't share in it.

Sounds as a very good, if difficult to attain, guideline for the improvement of society.

And very close to the original message of Christianity too (I'm talking milleniums ago).

Re: Living in a Van

#127

Post by mathattack »

I thought this type of living went away with the Grateful Dead. I can see it as some sort of strange counter-culture, but to do it for financial reasons just seems absurd. Unless you are truly destitute, it ultimately carries so many other burdens that will add to the costs.

Re: Living in a Van

#128

Post by philwelch »

tptacek wrote: post #36
patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

I used to work in a call center. I'm not female, but I knew a female or two who worked there. There was no dress code. There was aggressive monitoring, but there was a script and the cordial demeanor becomes automatic very quickly. The pay and job security wouldn't justify taking off for a month, though the turnover was high enough that after coming back, if they were still in business you could probably return to work right away.

Re: Living in a Van

#129

Post by philwelch »

tibbon wrote: post #62
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

I agree with you. The one thing I can never figure out is why managers of some types of companies run them the way they do. Why couldn't a call center employee work with a headset from a van and wear whatever they please? There's all sorts of strange practices that some of these companies do. Never in a million years would I ask an employee to submit to a drug test before being employed for example- yet that's what t…

The call center I used to work at had no dress code and no drug tests. In fact, almost everyone who worked there, other than myself, was constantly stoned.

Re: Living in a Van

#130

Post by brc »

sliverstorm wrote: post #122
brc wrote: post #114

I spent 3 months travelling in a 1978 Dodge RV, which I bought in LA for about $3000, and spent maybe $500 on parts for. It looked much like the one pictured in the article. I tore out the broken toilet and put in a chemical one, repaired the plumbing for the shower and got it going, replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. They key to buying one of these is take your time, and try out all the stuff. While fi…

stayed in state parks... usually just $10 or so a night. So, $300/mo? covered 11,000 miles I'll be generous and say your 1978 RV got 10mpg. That puts you at around $4,000 in fuel costs, assuming this trip was in the past couple years. 1978 Dodge RV, which I bought in LA for about $3000... When I was done I donated the camper spent less money than most would spend on the average Las Vegas trip. Good lord. Based on my…

You're a decade out. Fuel cost was $1.10 - $1.80 / gal

I also like big engines, the dodge had a big block and returned about 7 mpg. Stupid choice in hindsight but that's youth for you.

State parks were an occasional choice - the aim was for at least 50% free camping.

I forget the total amount now, you're probably not far off. If I had sold the camper at the end, it would have been better financially. I didn't have the time, there was no Craigslist then, and I was starting a new job so the cash wasn't going to be an issue.

The average las Vegas trip covers a lot of ground. It's a rhetorical flourish, yes.

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