Living in a Van • Hacker News Board

Re: Living in a Van

#111

Post by brc » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 11:39 PM UTC

sukuriant wrote: post #7

mikegirouard wrote: post #3

> Actually, you’d break even much sooner because your camper van is an asset. If you bought a used camper van from the 1980s, it’s unlikely to lose much more value under your watch. If you fix it up, it may even have appreciated in value when you look to sell it. If you resell it for anywhere near what you paid for it, you break even in just a couple of months. If you found a great deal on a van, you’d break even soo…

When talking with a lamborghini dealer, I was informed that some exceptionally rich people will purchase one of those, keep it for 3 years, and then sell it back at a profit because they depreciate so slowly. I thought this was interesting.

You were lied to.

There are virtually no lamborghinis that have ever increased in value over their original purchase price.

This might work if you live in a country with exceptionally high inflation - although you're still losing money (in real terms) the re-sale price might be nominally higher.

Exotic car speculation is the sport of kings - from time to time, it pays off (an orignal McLaren F1 is worth approximately double what they cost new, allowing for inflation). But plenty of 'special models' and such fail to reach icon status, and lose value rapidly.

Supercars have the steepest depreciation curves around. You would honestly do better with a portfolio of 100 sound campers than one supercar.

Re: Living in a Van

#112

Post by Kerrick » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 11:40 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #15

This seems like a romantically bohemian way to approximate a pampered middle class kid's idea of how poor people live. If you want to save money, you can try what they actually do, which is move to a less desirable neighborhood and spend one third what you do on rent for an apartment. You live in a crazy expensive neck of the woods? Nice to meet you; I live in Japan, cry me a river. There's old folks on social securi…

The case study in the article spends about $600 per month, mostly on food. That's my entire monthly budget, and my life is stationery, stable, and legal. With it, I buy: rent and utilities ($400) living with two roommates in a poor part of town; food ($100) consisting largely of bulk rice, couscous, ground beef, and other canned/dried goods; and entertainment ($100), which is largely made up of going out to eat at a cheap Chinese buffet every week or two and purchasing the occasional Steam game on sale.

Re: Living in a Van

#113

Post by whyaduck » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 11:51 PM UTC

Cass wrote: post #59

Osiris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have loved to save money right out of school, being as frugal as I am, but I was married when I graduated and the first thing my wife wanted after I got my first (low paying) full time job? A house. So much for the life of a cheapskate.

Putting money into a house you'll presumably be able to live in rent-free once it's paid off may not be a drastically worse choice than putting your money into savings. Unless it was an impractically huge house, or otherwise somehow not a keeper, I wouldn't consider that a frivolous/non-frugal purchase.

Unless he bought in 2006-2007. Still not frivolous...just a mistake.

Re: Living in a Van

#114

Post by brc » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 11:54 PM UTC

I spent 3 months travelling in a 1978 Dodge RV, which I bought in LA for about $3000, and spent maybe $500 on parts for. It looked much like the one pictured in the article. I tore out the broken toilet and put in a chemical one, repaired the plumbing for the shower and got it going, replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. They key to buying one of these is take your time, and try out all the stuff. While fixing engines is something any mechanic can do, you can't turn up to a mechanic with a malfunctioning water heater.

I dumped the 'black' water from the toilet at public dumping stations (many towns have these) and stayed in state parks, which are not only beautiful in most cases, but are also usually just $10 or so a night. When I needed to fully charge, replenish supplies and so on, I would pay for an overnight in a RV park.

I was on an extremely limited budget on the time, so free camped whenever I could, particularly so in expensive places like Monterey (bind : the most expensive places also have the most restrictive overnight parking laws). I never once got moved on.

My tip is to find a public building that is empty at night to camp in front of. Pick a school, a local sports club, a library something like that. Something that won't have a ton of security but is also likely to be deserted. Don't park in front of peoples houses, you never know when you're going to get a paranoid who will call the cops. But at the same time, don't drive down lonely roads and park up, you're asking for trouble.

You can always do the wal-mart thing, but only out of desperation. They aren't great places to stay, and because they are well-known, it's not a great idea if you're the only one.

Be prepared to packup and move on early in the day, and most of the time you'll be OK

Using this method, I saw 38 states & provinces, covered 11,000 miles and spent less money than most would spend on the average Las Vegas trip. A couple of buddies pitched in and filled up one of the storage areas with beer for me as a goodbye present.

When I was done I donated the camper to one of those charity car collection companies and they drove it away.

I think most young people should do something like this - living a frugal and simple life while enjoying travel is a great learning experience. Having since done a lot of travel in the 'modern' way of nice hotels, rental cars and the like, I still get wistful when I see a couple of scruffy looking youngsters making their way on a shoestring cash budget but a burgeoning enthusiasm supply.

Re: Living in a Van

#115

Post by poppysan » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:00 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #51

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

"Glib is the word I would use, for romanticizing a scenario" I would use glib in the same way that people romanticize people living in poverty. Particularly single moms with good kids living in the ghetto. Single mom works so hard holding down 3 jobs cleaning offices and her kids all work hard if only they were given a chance and didn't live in the projects. (Watch http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/ on netflix to see a litt…

I grew up in extreme poverty on a very dangerous street. My father died when I was a child, and with half an income, my mom was forced to work several jobs to support herself and 5 children. The only place we could afford to live was the "ghetto". My siblings and I worked hard each day, with no electricity on some days, no running water on others.

Even with this hard work, only 2 of my siblings have managed to excel to middle class or beyond. None of us have ever been arrested or addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Why did the 3 children advance, while 2 are still struggling? It is because when my father died, my younger 2 siblings were 3 and 4 years old. We moved to the bad neighborhood the year after, and they grew up with no realistic model of "success" with which to strive. The model they were exposed to was that of my mother's new role - take on as many back-breaking jobs as possible just to barely scrape by. My younger brothers work VASTLY harder than I do, with little to show for the effort.

I tell this story as a contrast to your analysis. While poverty breeds desperation (you are definitely more likely to get robbed of your luxury items while in a bad neighborhood), it also adds a grit that is hard to describe. I saw children of Crack-addicted prostitutes making sure that they got themselves and siblings to school each morning. I saw good, honest kids who had little expectation from themselves, or from the world at large. And they achieved (and received) their expectations.

I think its easy to romanticize any situation, but I would seriously implore you to reconsider your preconceived notion on the inhabitants of these low income neighborhoods. The more widespread this belief, the fewer intelligent people willing to work to fix these difficult issues.

Re: Living in a Van

#116

Post by brc » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:03 AM UTC

timmaah wrote: post #23

Great time to be living. My wife and I sold most of our stuff and have been living nomadically the last 4 months while continuing to work full time. Though we are in an Airstream, not a van. Started in Vermont and currently beach front on the Oregon coast. Truly awesome http://www.watsonswander.com/ It is turning out to be just slightly cheaper than when we owned a house. Averaged $27 a night the last two months for…

Hey, I love your Airstream. Been thinking dirty thoughts about one for a long time, but I've been reluctant to pull the trigger because of a lack of time to really put the work in. There are so many around to pick from it becomes bewildering which way to look.

You do know you've lowered the value by taking out all the original kit, right :)

Re: Living in a Van

#117

Post by puredemo » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:18 AM UTC

poppysan wrote: post #115

larrys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Glib is the word I would use, for romanticizing a scenario" I would use glib in the same way that people romanticize people living in poverty. Particularly single moms with good kids living in the ghetto. Single mom works so hard holding down 3 jobs cleaning offices and her kids all work hard if only they were given a chance and didn't live in the projects. (Watch http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/ on netflix to see a litt…

I grew up in extreme poverty on a very dangerous street. My father died when I was a child, and with half an income, my mom was forced to work several jobs to support herself and 5 children. The only place we could afford to live was the "ghetto". My siblings and I worked hard each day, with no electricity on some days, no running water on others. Even with this hard work, only 2 of my siblings have managed to excel…

Cultural imprinting, basically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_%28psychology%29

Re: Living in a Van

#118

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:52 AM UTC

tgrass wrote: post #58

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

Good to know we shouldn't have pleasure so long as there is any man who can't share in it. [EDIT] single father/middle class technocrat here, living paycheck to paycheck. Many of my friends make less than I do. By this measure of hubris, I should not go out to eat so long as fellow engineers are looking for work.

As anyone who has had my comments inflicted on them long enough can tell you, if I had meant to point out that people shouldn't enjoy living out of a van (if that's there thing), I would have made that point, repeatedly, in painful detail. That's not what I was saying.

Re: Living in a Van

#119

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:53 AM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #62

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting also to note that the ability to lead any kind of normal or predictable life in this fashion is itself a privilege. People in the software business can get away with wearing the same clothes, coming in wrinkled, missing the occasional shower, and, for that matter, getting in a little later after having to move the van in the middle of the night. Our field is extremely accommodating. Put yourself in…

I agree with you. The one thing I can never figure out is why managers of some types of companies run them the way they do. Why couldn't a call center employee work with a headset from a van and wear whatever they please? There's all sorts of strange practices that some of these companies do. Never in a million years would I ask an employee to submit to a drug test before being employed for example- yet that's what t…

Why couldn't a call center employee ... wear whatever they please?

Presumably the managerial types are trying to help cultivate a "professional" environment.

Never in a million years would I ask an employee to submit to a drug test

I understand the personal freedoms angle, but I can also sympathize with employers who are tired of discovering that guy they hired last week is actually a raging meth head.

Re: Living in a Van

#120

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 12:55 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #75

guelo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm impressed that you're able to do a sociological study of "the others" as you drive through their neighborhoods, probably with your windows up and doors locked. Non-snarkily, I think people are the same everywhere, mostly good and hard working with occasional cheating when they think they can get away with it. From my personal anecdata, I've seen both shady deplorable acts and admirable selfless acts from milliona…

"Non-snarkily, I think people are the same everywhere, mostly good and hard working" If that is the case then why do I keep my windows up when I drive through those neighborhoods. Are you saying I have nothing to fear driving my new expensive car through, say, many areas of Newark NJ or areas such as the "Badlands" in Phila PA? Or that I am safe to walk the streets in those areas? And if those areas are so great and…

Yes, it is safe to drive in your expensive car through Newark or to walk the street in north Philly.