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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#371

Post by thomassmith65 »

derelicta wrote: post #349
thomassmith65 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is America allied with Russia or Europe in this scenario? That's probably not what the parent comment meant, though.

Not really. I meant that America has triggered this war, like pretty much all wars on this planet since the end of the global anti fascist war. Thus, Europeans being good little servants, they will die for Washington.

Congratulations, USSR, young people have forgotten you entirely! /s

That said, it is still insultingly wrong to blame even America and the USSR together for starting 'all wars on the planet' since WWII.

To quote the great historians Chris Hughes and Roland Orzabal: "everybody wants to rule the world"

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#372

Post by hkpack »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #370
hkpack wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as russian conscription refugees - all of the invading army consists of military contractors now. It was a brief period in 2022 where russia was forced to conscript to save itself from total loss.

https://chateurope.eu/en/europe-faces-dilemma-on-russians-fl...

My words:

> It was a brief period in 2022 when russia was forced to conscript to save itself from total loss.

Atricle:

> 25 September 2022

At present, the russian army is the biggest mercenary army in the world.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#373

Post by nephihaha »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #368
derelicta wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. After all, Europe is under NATO occupation, the same NATO whose leader is no one than America.

Nobody would take seriously the characterization of Europe being under a NATO 'occupation'. That said, for the first half of my life, much of Europe was under a literal occupation by Russia. As a reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

The Soviet Union rather than Russia. Subtle distinction, but tens of millions of Soviets were not Russian.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#374

Post by nephihaha »

distances wrote: post #288
jasonvorhe wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand. I'm not against reporting about Russia. The oversimplification of reducing everything down to "Putin this, Putin that" is my issue. Imagine me saying everything the EU is doing is explicitly because of Ursel. It's stupid, ignorant and reminds me of Trump Derangement Syndrome which had a similar effect on reporting about US issues. I live in Germany so I'm fucked either way. I'm also aware of NATO e…

> I'm also aware of NATO expansion This is the Russian way of putting it. Guess what, NATO doesn't "expand". Each and every NATO member had to apply for membership themselves, after a national decision to do so. Any guesses why all Russian neighbours want to be NATO members?

Bit hard to paint Portugal, Spain, France, and Britain as Russia's neighbours. All enthusiastic NATO members.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#375

Post by Nextgrid »

sunshine-o wrote: post #174
nicbou wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. I don't think that the social situation is as bad as you describe. I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

> I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany. Yes this what I am sincerely wondering: which group (however you want to define it) of relatively young people, do they believe they can leverage "to put their life on the line for Germany"?

You'd have better success getting people to fight for your cause when you provide them something of value they can't get elsewhere.

When what people get (using their labor to subsidize politicians & boomers via taxes & rent) is the same thing they can get in effectively any country or even under the invader's rule, the incentives to fight said invader become quite scarce.

This isn't even specific to Germany; a lot of people are fleeing conscription on both sides of the current conflict for the same reason - they just don't get enough benefit to make it worth putting their life on the line.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#376

Post by thomassmith65 »

nephihaha wrote: post #373
thomassmith65 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody would take seriously the characterization of Europe being under a NATO 'occupation'. That said, for the first half of my life, much of Europe was under a literal occupation by Russia. As a reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

The Soviet Union rather than Russia. Subtle distinction, but tens of millions of Soviets were not Russian.

Technically true, but 'Russia' works fine, in practice.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#377

Post by distances »

nephihaha wrote: post #374
distances wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm also aware of NATO expansion This is the Russian way of putting it. Guess what, NATO doesn't "expand". Each and every NATO member had to apply for membership themselves, after a national decision to do so. Any guesses why all Russian neighbours want to be NATO members?

Bit hard to paint Portugal, Spain, France, and Britain as Russia's neighbours. All enthusiastic NATO members.

You may have to read my comment again, I was not reinventing geography.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#378

Post by derelicta »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #371
derelicta wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I meant that America has triggered this war, like pretty much all wars on this planet since the end of the global anti fascist war. Thus, Europeans being good little servants, they will die for Washington.

Congratulations, USSR, young people have forgotten you entirely! /s That said, it is still insultingly wrong to blame even America and the USSR together for starting 'all wars on the planet' since WWII. To quote the great historians Chris Hughes and Roland Orzabal: "everybody wants to rule the world"

Honestly, even intra commie wars were also triggered by the US Empire, and for these, Soviets were extraordinary foolish, I will give you that. But I stand my ground; behind the vast majority of wars since WW2, there is the American architect.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#379

Post by derelicta »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #368
derelicta wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. After all, Europe is under NATO occupation, the same NATO whose leader is no one than America.

Nobody would take seriously the characterization of Europe being under a NATO 'occupation'. That said, for the first half of my life, much of Europe was under a literal occupation by Russia. As a reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

If you are doubting these statements of mine, how about you look up the great evils the American govt has inflicted unto Americans themselves? I'd start with MKULTRA, the Kent State massacre and go through COINTELPRO files. Then you will slowly be able to move on to US-led election frauds in Europe, and NATO-funded nazi death squads in Switzerland.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#380

Post by wtcactus »

sunshine-o wrote: post #131
nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

> “ A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster”.

I totally disagree. Everywhere I look, I’m being told that “diversity is our strength”. This will surely be the most awesome military in the history of human civilization.

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