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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#191

Post by mopsi »

justsomejew wrote: post #183
flohofwoe wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_... The Red Army wasn't all that civilized either on their way to Berlin.

26 million people killed in Soviet Union. Jews massacred in Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine by the local population (not all of them participated, but your current friends ideological fathers did). Only in Leningrad's blocade 2 million people died. It was the Soviet Army which liberated Auschwitz, Soviet Army which crushed the nazi war machine starting from Stalingrad. And these are the main points which your nauseating a…

Speaking of things people pretend not to exist, Russian historiography frames WWII as lasting from 1941 to 1945. The USSR conspired with the Nazis to divide Europe[1], invaded Poland from the east in cooperation with Germany[2], held a joint victory parade when Soviet and German forces met[3], murdered the Polish people in an industrial manner[4], and so forth. Later, it pretended that the war began only in 1941 and that none of this had happened. These events were officially acknowledged only in the early 1990s, in the final days of the USSR.

And these were only the opening months of the war. Here is Soviet officer Leonid Rabichev giving a chilling description of the final months of the war in Prussia and the extent of Soviet atrocities against civilians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ywe5pFT928

Stories like these are why the phrase "Soviet liberators" is used only sarcastically in Eastern Europe.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#193

Post by hkpack »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #189
hkpack wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it will technically not be Putin himself, but someone from russia's poor regions, while you will be forcibly send to the grinder. This all happened multiple times, and the only reason you can chuckle is ignorance.

I chuckled because of the s/Russia/Putin/g nonsense everywhere. I'm not laughing at anyone's expense if they forcibly lose their home, no matter where and under which circumstances.

You see, millions are already killed in the biggest war in Europe since WW2 and it looks like this is just the prelude.

Russia is threatening to fight Europe as of yesterday, continue to increase weapon production and militarisation. It is obvious that it just cannot stop as its economy and social order is switching more and more to the war-time. China backs russia up and officially declaring that it cannot allow Russia to lose.

The alliance which was created specifically to stop this scenario is now being neutralised by US withdrawing from it.

And you still call it "Russia/Putin nonsense". Do you live somewhere where you feel isolated from all of this?

Please tell me so I can go there as well. Because at the place where I live - Russians drones are flying over important infrastructure mapping it out without government/military being able to stop it. Russians propaganda fills social media, and politicians are corrupted by russia without hiding it too much.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#194

Post by markus_zhang »

fabianholzer wrote: post #163
markus_zhang wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can Germans elaborate on this? I have heard some stories but I don’t know the truth of them.

Yes, the billboard advertisement part is true. But billboards in Germany are fewer and smaller than in other parts of the world. And the Bundeswehr ad campaign is nothing that will convince anyone who would not be convinced otherwise already. If you notice the ads as a German citizen at all, you'll most likely shrug, or ask your self: Since. When. Is. It. Ok. To. Pretend. A. Single. Word. Forms. A. Sentence? (for con…

Thanks! I hope everything goes well for you. Might bring my kid for a visit in the future as my cousin studies music in one of the best schools there.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#195

Post by flohofwoe »

justsomejew wrote: post #183
flohofwoe wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_... The Red Army wasn't all that civilized either on their way to Berlin.

26 million people killed in Soviet Union. Jews massacred in Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine by the local population (not all of them participated, but your current friends ideological fathers did). Only in Leningrad's blocade 2 million people died. It was the Soviet Army which liberated Auschwitz, Soviet Army which crushed the nazi war machine starting from Stalingrad. And these are the main points which your nauseating a…

Yes all those things are true, but the Red Army raping and pillaging on a massive scale in the liberated areas is also true. Bringing the dark side of one's history to light (no matter the country) isn't propaganda but the first step towards freeing yourself from state propaganda. The Soviet Union already seemed to be have been further in that process after Stalin's death than Russia is today.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#196

Post by port11 »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

What are you suggesting? That without forced military service Russia will take over Germany? It's not impossible, but basic military service likely does little to thwart invasion by a powerful Russian army — powerful by your suggestion. This is quite an expensive program and a questionable use of taxpayer money.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#197

Post by [deleted] »

derelicta wrote: post #127
appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

But that they learn how to speak English is not an issue for you, is it?

[deleted]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#198

Post by justsomejew »

mopsi wrote: post #191
justsomejew wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

26 million people killed in Soviet Union. Jews massacred in Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine by the local population (not all of them participated, but your current friends ideological fathers did). Only in Leningrad's blocade 2 million people died. It was the Soviet Army which liberated Auschwitz, Soviet Army which crushed the nazi war machine starting from Stalingrad. And these are the main points which your nauseating a…

Speaking of things people pretend not to exist, Russian historiography frames WWII as lasting from 1941 to 1945. The USSR conspired with the Nazis to divide Europe[1], invaded Poland from the east in cooperation with Germany[2], held a joint victory parade when Soviet and German forces met[3], murdered the Polish people in an industrial manner[4], and so forth. Later, it pretended that the war began only in 1941 and…

"Conspired with the nazis to divide Europe" - was pushed to reach an agreement with Germany by the other parties, Soviet Union did realize the danger of the nazi regime, and this was not the preferred course, even for Stalin's regime.

"Used only sarcastically in Eastern Europe"

You just forgot to add "after decades of antirussian propaganda". And still, there are people who don't think about it sarcastically at all, they just are not allowed to speak (if they don't want to lose work, or to get processed by the state for "negating history").

As for the rest go and get the skeletons out from your own closet, there are plenty of them there.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#199

Post by squigz »

enceladus06 wrote: post #8

Just build nukes if you are afraid of Russia then nuke them if they try to invade. Ukraine is not as smart and gave up its nukes in the early 90s, and is now in the middle of a war for the last couple years.

And what happens when Russia launches nukes in response?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#200

Post by jasonvorhe »

hkpack wrote: post #193
jasonvorhe wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chuckled because of the s/Russia/Putin/g nonsense everywhere. I'm not laughing at anyone's expense if they forcibly lose their home, no matter where and under which circumstances.

You see, millions are already killed in the biggest war in Europe since WW2 and it looks like this is just the prelude. Russia is threatening to fight Europe as of yesterday, continue to increase weapon production and militarisation. It is obvious that it just cannot stop as its economy and social order is switching more and more to the war-time. China backs russia up and officially declaring that it cannot allow Rus…

You misunderstand. I'm not against reporting about Russia. The oversimplification of reducing everything down to "Putin this, Putin that" is my issue. Imagine me saying everything the EU is doing is explicitly because of Ursel. It's stupid, ignorant and reminds me of Trump Derangement Syndrome which had a similar effect on reporting about US issues.

I live in Germany so I'm fucked either way. I'm also aware of NATO expansion until a point where Russia couldn't ignore it anymore. You think Russia will attack Europe, I think the West is keen on fighting a war against Russia. I don't subscribe to any of the narratives you presented, especially since I think it obvious that its the West that finds itself having to wage a war because their currencies, social order and demographics needing a reset. NATO being a defensive alliance is a joke.

Since we're unlikely to come closer to an understanding I'll refrain from going further.

Sometimes it's just easier to agree to disagree.

May we all live through this somehow.

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