There's plenty of good hardware outside the Apple world. Heck, whenever I get convinced to try Apple hardware or software, its quirks and obvious glitches put me off. Input lag is the topmost issue. It immediately washes off the "quality" impression. But I understand that Apple users are used to that and don't notice such issues.
Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
121–130 of 282 posts
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
The industry also didn't keep up with the trackpad, which should be simpler.
Apple trackpads are so good that I prefer that over a full mouse for work
I actually looked for a desktop trackpad for my desktop pc that is on par with my macbook trackpad. Didn't find one available.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#123Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
The industry also didn't keep up with the trackpad, which should be simpler.
Apple trackpads are so good that I prefer that over a full mouse for work
Since I switched to a macbook from a (proper) thinkpad I just carry a trackball with me when I expect to do longer stuff that requires mousing - the track pad isn't bad, but gets annoying over time. That also finalized my switch away from mice - before that I had both a mouse and a trackball on my desk, and while I still have that I can't remember when I last touched the mouse.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#125I wonder why ThinkPads are not mentioned. It's not like I recommend them (I mean, I use one, but it's not like I've tried most laptops out there, so who I am to judge), but I was under the impression it's still a de-facto Linux laptop standard.
They used to be genuinely great, now they coasting on brand name and simply not being as bad as most laptops. DIY hardware upgrades are no longer possible, the keyboard is no longer a differentiator, and linux battery life is about 1/4 windows running on the same machine.
From what I remember the last time I bought a laptop, they also have a really annoying pricing model where everything is 30% overpriced but are running constant discounts
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#126geohot: "I want a laptop with a high-end AMD chip, great Linux power management, good docs, solid build, and a normal name" My brother in christ, the ThinkPad T14s Gen 5 AMD exists. Zen 5, aluminum chassis, legendary Linux support, actual power state documentation. They been doing this for 30 years. Dude, you're bikeshedding a product that's been sitting in the enterprise aisle this whole time ThinkPads have been the…
Not sure what laptop you confused it with, but T14s Gen 5 is sold with Intel CPUs only.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#127I think the kind of laptop this person wishes should simply be made illegal to make. We cannot sustain having all electric devices being thrown after a year or two, these things need to last, to be repairable and make it easy to grab pieces and materials when they die anyway
I agree with him. My personal laptop is an m1 MacBook Pro, and 5 years on it’s still a better experience than my work laptop which is a high spec dell with an i9 and 32GB ram. I’m more likely to chuck the dell than upgrade it because whatever combination of stuff it’s doing just doesn’t work.
Give me something solid that will last 5 -6 years with a serviceable (I don’t care if it’s glued or torx’ed or whatever in, just as long as it’s replaceable) battery, and I don’t care if the RAM and SSD is soldered to the chipset.
In the past I’ve replaced spinning rust with SSDs and that’s given that machine a lease of life but those kinds of upgrades don’t really exist anymore - adding an extra 8GB ram isn’t going to turn my stupid dell machine into something that works.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#128The framework model is the reasonable approach to people being finnicky about their laptop specs. You can't sustain "I want it just so" and "it needs to be a cnc-machined glued together brick, engineered to the last gramme" at the same time, without a step change in how we build hardware, but the framework comes pretty close If linux power management got a bit better, and there was a good arm chip, it would be a grea…
> If linux power management got a bit better
Honestly this is the thing that holds me back from using not a mac. My MacBook is always at the same battery level when I open it as it was when I closed it. My windows laptop regularly decides to do _something_ overnight and is dead when I try to use it, about once a week.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#129There's plenty of good hardware outside the Apple world. Heck, whenever I get convinced to try Apple hardware or software, its quirks and obvious glitches put me off. Input lag is the topmost issue. It immediately washes off the "quality" impression. But I understand that Apple users are used to that and don't notice such issues.
What would you recommend?
> input lag is the topmost issue
IME this is a massive problem on windows and android and apple actually gets it right. They occasionally have stupid animations but those animations are responsive and trigger immediately. I don’t experience 3-5 second stalls (seriously the share dialog on android is a disgrace, and the windows start menu has become the least reliable part of the OS), and the input devices track to on screen movements - something I can’t say for win/android.
Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise" Same for me, Apple included; trackpads are just a huge waste of space to me. Have to say that my hand-eye coordination is way above that of the average computer user, and my workflows involving complementary HIDs always focused on trackballs, digtizer pens, as well as gamepads/game controllers for other, non-game related stuff. I also don't get why pe…
I don't understand what you mean by "outdated form factors". Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor? What "market realities" are you noticing? Really interested in your viewpoint and would be grateful for some clarification.
> "Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor?"
Yes, that's the gist of it. Classic laptops gave way to an acceptable interstage, the T-hinge convertible (with many great examples especially from IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Fujitsu), which was then superseded by the best of both worlds: the detachable. The latter chassis design, taken to its logical conclusion, is the best form factor for a modular, ultramobile to mobile general-purpose computing platform, i. e. it can technically be implemented as anything between a UMPC (i. e. a smartphone-sized and -styled slab) to something with a footprint of maximally 14 inches (example: HP's discontinued ZBook X2 G4 mobile workstation). Anything bigger I consider an antithesis to the form factor and therefore would not buy it, but that's obviously in the eye of any beholder.
One possible unrealistic "dream" design for me is, as weird as it sounds, a cross between a Nintendo Switch/Lenovo Legion Go (complete with detachable controller options!) and an improved Panasonic Toughbook G2, reworked as a professional-grade, maintenance-friendly mobile workstation (or a scaled-down, more maintenance-friendly and otherwise improved HP ZBook X2 G4 with ECC memory).
> "What 'market realities' are you noticing?"
Well, the above mentioned design is unrealistic as it would amount to an expensive general-purpose machine that needs a long-term support infrastructure. Not many companies on the market that are in a position to deliver on that promise for at least three continental zones (say, the Americas, the Eurozone and major parts of Asia). Or willing to do so.
Furthermore, the comment was a reflection on what is available on the market for the foreseeable future. I'm eyeing such a small mobile workstation for a) 2D graphics work and b) analysis of historical and archival data. I am even willing to put up with a classic laptop if I could get an ECC-equipped model. But none of these machines are mobile, they're all 16-inch+ brutes. No thanks.
So I have to look for other machines. ECC-machine? Fuck, most likely some mini-PC in addition to something mobile without ECC memory. Keeping that in mind, what are the options that come closest to the above ideal? Essentially only overspecialized, maintenance-averse gaming machines with pathetic battery life and a support quality somewhere between questionable and utterly inacceptable (Lenovo consumer division, OneXPlayer, Asus).
A Panasonic Toughbook G2 10-incher could be an acceptable alternative, but I'm not gonna fork over Panasonic-money for a non-ECC ruggedized machine without a DCI-P3 screen and a digitizer that's even worse than an Apple Pencil (I think they use either Microsoft's Pen Protocol or Wacom's AES tech).
Everything else is locked-down garbage with some sort of Fisher-Price OS, e. g. everything Apple, Samsung's Galaxy Tab Active5 Pro, etc.